Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I just bought a juvenile water monitor sunday morning at a reptile show. Its really not that aggressive and only nips if i corner him, if i hold him he just tries to squeeze out of my hands. On the first day i got him after the car ride home he regurgetated a pinky mouse-so hes pretty much on an empty stomache... i've offered him 3 pinky mice/insects/and chicken based cat food and he hasn't eaten any of them. Hes too nervous-my suspicians are that he is an import but that didn't bother me to much-other then being a little bit on the skinny side hes a healthy active lizard. But 3 days with no food and on an empty stomache? is this dangerous? how long do you think he'll continue to starve himself-he just won't calm down enough to eat.
Help would be appreciated (im a first time monitor owner and am not too familiar with such shy lizards)

You need to leave him alone. get him in a proper set-up. with all of his heat and humidity requirments, put him on some dirt. and let him be. the handling and cornering him scares him. he isnt comfortable. a few days without food isnt going to hurt him. if he is in a glass aquarium. either build him a wood cage or cover the top. it wont hold humidity with a screen top. and standing over him misting 2 times a day is just going to continue to scare him.

GOOD LUCK

i only handled him before i put him in his enclosure to get a feel for him. After all he is my first monitor-but once he went in he hasnt been touched.

Don't forget about good secure hide spots in his setup. Let him/her just be for a while. Don't bother holding it until it calms down in it's enclosure and it is eating well and has weight on it. Good luck.

Every water monitor that I have owned (3) were skittish,shy and remember, have the ability to bite you while holding their necks.I love savs

I know the dangers-he can really be pretty calm for an import if u ask me-my plan is to "ATTEMPT" to tame him once hes settled in. Of course the chances of that happening are slim-as soon as he doubles in size im gonna get him a harness/leash to take him on walks-of course if he remains nippy and skiddish the rest of his life i won't be too down-if i wanted something cute and cuddly i would have gotten a bearded dragon- and if i hadn't done my research i prolly would have gotten one of the baby niles for $75 less rather then the water. I was planning on getting something nasty when i got to the swap-it was either the dwarf cuvier's caiman or the monitor-i chose the monitor.

you haven't mentioned any husbandry details at all, check out the caresheet at our site for setup details.
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

glass aquarium
Warmest side at highest point:104-108 Fer.
Warmest side at lowest point:85-89 Fer.
ambient temperature ranges from 81-85 fer.
bedding:moss
one half log hide space
one large plant
basking branch

Tommorow will be the 4th day hes been in my possesion without showing any interest for food.

he needs about a 120-130 degree basking spot and those half logs arent secure hiding spots. try getting some pieces of cork bark and putting them in there. also, switch to dirt for substrate.
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-Marshall
1.1.0 ball pythons
0.0.1 red ackie

Ill switch to higher wattage and get the cork bark then- i can't use dirt because i need the moss to keep the humidity up

we get 130F basking temps using 25-45 watt bulbs, there is no need for a high wattage bulb, just use an elevated basking spot.

moss is a poor substrate. you do want a humid substrate, soil would be a great choice, cypress mulch second, and after that, well, nothing else comes to mind : )
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

It seems to me that you are forgetting leaf litter. I think for a juvenile water monitor oak leaf litter would be a better choice than either dirt or cypress mulch.

Cheers,
Neal

I don't want to try and dis your methods or anything-pro exotics has alot more experience then me(obviously-and ill add that i had looked at some of pro's water monitor pics and found them to be very good quality in appearance-you guys do chose the best)-but given that south asia has moderate to high humidity-i find it important that my monitor gets those features-not because he needs it-but because he is a wild caught from south asia and i want him to feel at home-im keeping the moss on the surface and am going to try to find good soil to put underneath for better burrowing- he ate his very first pinky today-such a relief-and i want to thank anyone who left a post in this thread-you've been very helpful

The monitors you mentioned in asia are not stuck in a box. The problem with cages and wet is because the monitor is STUCK there. Heat, humidity and feces and urine, what a great combo.

Truely this is not meant to offend you, but your misleading yourself if you think humidity is the only important factor.

You must understand, no matter what you do, your cage is not loose and wild in asia. Cheers

no offense taken-is that a common problem with waters-humidity and bacteria-i don't think its the only factor i just figured he'd enjoy a little moisture

Water monitors in nature are careful to dry off after going in the water. They do not like to stay wet.

a very hard concept to understand in captivity is, to have humidity(medium levels) without being wet. As in, humid and dry. The wrong substrate causes wet and humid.

Lastly, you said, you were thinking this or that, yet those that are past the guessing stage gave you hard learned advice from captive experience. Now its up to you to help your monitor. Cheers

Your the expert-soil it is
and to the dude from pro exotics= i apologize for using you to make a fool out of myself

Frank, where is this coming from? This is a species that I have been able to observe in the field in a number of countries. I have spent much of the last two years observing this species in a variety of habitats. Over this time, I have rarely found them in areas where it would even be possible for them to dry off; the only exceptions have been during basking, after which they usually enter the water. From these extensive observations that I have conducted, I have observed that they are very closely tied to water, so close that most of the time if they are out of the water completely, they are moving around on mud. Greatest population densities occur in swamps (with elephant grass) and mangrove swamps, where they prefer to move through the water from place to place or on the mud rather than taking routes that would allow them to 'dry off.'

Now, keeping an enclosure dry with high humidity will keep the enclosure from producing molds and fungi, as well as being OK for the captive V. salvator, but will also result with them spending most of their time in the water, which is what I have seen with the V. salvator salvator I have kept captive indoors in enclosures that were dry, but with high humidity levels. This has not been the case with those kept outside or in wet indoor enclosures; they have spent less overall time in the water.

Cheers,
Michael

What do they do before they shelter for the night?????????? Cheers

Shelter is often taken in shallow water, even at night, using the head to dock in place on vegetation, fallen trees; this could be because of the extremely high temperatures in this area of Southeast Asia and may also account for their much larger size when compared to other localities. Much of the soil is clay in the areas that I find them and if they burrow, it is a rather wet nasty clay that they are burrowing into, adjacent to water. Under fallen trees and in hollow logs are also areas that they use for shelter. They are often reported in trees, but I have rarely encountered them there, usually seeing them in the water or on the ground close to the water.

Cheers,
Michael

>>What do they do before they shelter for the night?????????? Cheers

The majority of times, shelter is in a hole under a root ball, or sand bank or hollow tree base or limb. Yes, I have seen monitors in the water at night, but that represents one of of a thousand, its not normal. Normal is to seek dry cover. (dry as possible depending on season) I also understand during extreme periods of wet, its not to be found. But that does not last the potential lifetime of the monitor.

Now consider, we are not talking about what they normally do in nature, you really should consider normal and not exceptions. Exceptions are great for arguements, but suck for understanding an animal. If you keep a captive water monitor or even a far more aquatic monitor(mertens) in a constant wet enviornment it will die, like the 99.9999% of captives imported into this country actually do. The point is, we are talking about a monitor in a potential wet box. Not nature.

So you want to argue a point thats meaningless to why such a high percentage of captives die?

The actual point eludes you like good observations. A wild monitor has choices. If it starts growing fungus it can bask remedy the problem. It can seek dryer conditions. When a person/keeper, thinks about using a substrate that HOLDS water, to keep it moist, it means, moist/wet, 24/7/365. And that ain't natural.

If you live and go were monitors occur, you know darn well, monitors bask like crazy after rains. I have to wonder why? Ok, I know why. To dry off and regain needed heat. You see, wet is a cooling agent. specially in a cage thats being heated. Which is the reality of this post.

A lesson in observation. What bothers me is somehow your training leads you to make conclusions on a few observations. Yes, waters can spend the night in the water, but ask yourself why? for what reason? Also what percentage of the population is doing so? Not just say, see, they do that? Think about this, the quality of observation is not simply seeing something, its understanding what your seeing. What I find odd is, you seem to have more importance in what people tell you, or what you think, then want your actually seeing.

In may case, a high percentage of observations, once investigated, were contrary to what I was told, read and thought. Which is why I often get upset with you fellas. Cheers

Based on sheer population density and the great size of the habitat of the central flood plain region (Chao Phraya River Basin), there is no doubt that my area has one of the largest, if not THE largest population of Varanus salvator in the world. In this great population the only features above 7 ft above sea level are the trees, elephant grass (which the monitors can not climb on) and man made features such as rice paddy dikes and highways, which are avoided, except for those populations which I refer to as ‘urban salvator’ (those which reside in Bangkok). It is the great exception for me to find them in the trees. Although they favor areas where there are trees, they are rarely climbing up into the trees. They are just not going for the dry areas at all, except to bask and even then I often find them basking in the mud. This is not just in the above mentioned area, but also in mangroves and primary rainforests.

I will grant you the point that it is better not to keep them in captivity in the constantly wet captive indoor environment, especially for those that are not experienced, which is the original point. I responded to what they do in nature (in the field), as in your statement: “Water monitors in nature are careful to dry off after going in the water. They do not like to stay wet.” Although I wrote it is OK to keep them in a dry captive indoor environment, this is the way I have raised all of mine. I have only recently started experimentation with keeping them in a constantly wet enclosure. I will be happy to report on how that turns out.

I am puzzled what you mean by the making of conclusions based on a few observations, when they have been a significant part of my field studies for the past two years. I live and go where the monitors go, literally. My home is a 5-10 minute walk from where I can see monitors in the field with a near 100% probability; my back yard is open to the field. This picture is taken 20m from my home during the driest part of the year; during that part of the year, the monitors do not leave the permanently wet areas (like the one that is a 5-10 minutes walk from my home).

Observations that I make are simply that which I see. They are not based on what others see or have written. If that were the case, I would not call them my observations. The observations that I have made of them sleeping in the water are my own, a significant percentage and contrary to what some others have said and written in the past. As to why they are doing it, I had mentioned the hot temperatures in this region; Varanus salvator has a lower optimum temperature than most monitors and my conclusion is that it may do it for comfort. Another reason that I did not mention could be predator avoidance; moving through elephant grass in shallow water with deep mud is difficult (and not the most pleasant of experiences). Finally, it is considered an aquatic species by biologists in this region; after all, it is called ‘Water Monitor’ in English for a reason.

One thing that I have considered and still can not figure out is how so many people kill off their monitor lizards in the US. Well, I can figure it out to a certain degree by reading the posts on this forum and the other fora, but I find most monitors, especially V. salvator, to be incredibly tough.

Cheers,
Michael

While we can go on and on off on a tangent that has nothing to do with the context of the question. Something I believe you academic types are very good at.

Your wonderful population of water monitors are FREE to choose and pick conditions that fill their needs. What they do is fill their needs. That they are there, tells you, they indeed have filled that needs with the conditions in that area. Do you understand that? They are free to use different parts of their habitat. They are free to make changes if and when they are needed. Sir, that is behavior

In captivity, they are enclosed in a often very small box. They are givin a water bowl, tank, etc. Because they are a "water" montior. Then they are often kept on moist/wet moss or some sort of chopped up wood that holds water. Sir, they cannot make a choice, they cannot escage this. They are not allowed to use their behavior.

The reality of this is, most of them die very quickly. Those of us with successful captive experience have learned to allow them choices from dry to having water. That Newbie should listen to Robyn, as he has conditioned(made healthy) many many wild caught water monitors. He also had the luxury of cherry picking the good ones. Did this keeper get a good one? This person should listen to those who have successfully kept the type of animal they have(a severely stressed wild caught monitor) Not try to set it up as a postcard of asia/indo.

That you and other academics, set about to confuse the WILD with captivity is so very odd to me. Why not discuss your successful captive experience with this species or any dang species???????????? Let me remind you, this persons BOX will not in any way or form, resemble your wonderful pics and the conditions the monitors there USE. You think??????????? Cheers

So far the water monitor is feeding at somewhat of a steady rate-but all he wants is pinkies-he won't eat crickets-and hasn't shown much interest in the cat food-is there anything else he might like-i was thinking about raw eggs but due to all the perservatives in human food these days im not sure of how safe this would be. And about calcium-for instance i own boas and pythons-they eat mice and i've never needed to worry about calcium defficiancy-but the only lizards i've owned were iguanas/bearded dragons-and i never fed them heavy foods like mice and therefore would dust all te crickets and vegtables with repcal-with a monitor, do the pinkies need to be dusted every day-dusted moderatly-or not at all...i ask the questions because along time ago i remember reading a site that stated mice supplied enough calcium as it is.And that added calcium can me somewhat dangerous(I realize i might be continuing this thread longer then i should-i just want my monitor to have as much variety in diet as possible-and be as healthy as possible-i don't plan on getting rid of him once he reaches 4 feet like most of the nebie monitor owners might.I want to have him til he dies-and i dont want him to die early from some petty mistake.)