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nile monitor

roadfamily6now Apr 22, 2007 10:24 PM

We have been presented with to opportunity to get a 2 1/2 foot nile monitor. We are currently finding the space for this monster in our house. We know we need an enclosure at least 6 feet long. We are planning one that is 6 x 3 x 3 at this time until a remodel will accomidate a much larger home for him in the near future.
We have found a pond that is nearly 3 x 5 x 16" deep for him that will be inside the enclosure. Then he will have a small landing leading up to a nice sized basking platform.
Any suggestions would be greatly appriciated.
We have experience mostly with snakes at this time.

Thanks.
-----
Tammy, Doug, Skylar, Andrew, Aaron, Lessley
2 cats (azul & chester)
2 parakeets (banana and split)
2 hampsters (oreo and Ritz)
3 RES (Big mama, Quazimoto, Rustus)
Many fish and snails
1 Mini Shnauzer (Nacho)
3 Mice
2 Rats (mel & noma)
4 Gerbils
1 Tadpole (wort)
1 Ball Python (godzilla)

Replies (10)

nile_keepr Apr 23, 2007 12:31 AM

If you havent taken care of monitors before, Id suggest you think otherwise.

Niles get big and have nasty attitudes most of the time: a full grown Nile can do some serious damage if it so chooses (serious tissue damage via tooth/claw lacerations, possible breaking of fingers and what not, and tail whips hurt) , and if you've got kids, this definitely isnt something theyd be able to, ya know, touch without heavy supervision (not that its really good to handle an animal like this).

How old is this animal, if ya happen to know? Only asking because a healthy, well maintained Nile can reach over 4' in the first year- if you DO get a Nile, you certainly dont wanna get one thats had poor care.

A note on caging: I dunno if its common (though Im guessing it is), but my Nile digs like crazy. And by "like crazy", I mean sometimes violently flinging dirt out behind him. This makes keeping water clean a PAIN, as the animal also uses the water feature to expell wastes. Basically, whatever you provide, plan on TOTAL water changes, which includes draining/replacing all water and removing all dirt/poo, (i use a siphon from an auto parts store) at least once a day, moreso as needed.

With Niles, you wanna look at something more like 8'long x 4 or 6' wide and 4' tall.... Ive been told those are minimum requirements- basically, bigger is better. These animals have large territorys in nature and, unlike a dog or cat, it wont simply acclimate itself to whatever you provide. And if it does, it likely wont be too happy about it, lol

There are a number of smaller, friendlier monitor species that you can get- DONT LET PRICE FOOL YOU!

That Nile may only be 2 1/2', but he'll grow faster than ya think (though, if youve kept snakes, you prolly know how that goes).

Also, for large monitors (and Niles are large), though you may be saving a LITTLE bit at the original purchase, you can plan on spending a good deal of $$ on feeders...

Recently, I just spent $160 on mice/quail and that will feed one animal for 2 months... over a year, thats: $960... and thats JUST FOOD, for one animal! lol

I wont try to turn you off it (I think i did that well enough above), but Id suggest you consider the following before making your decision:
-how much time you have to offer this animal
-how much money you have to spend on this animal
-what kind of pet you are looking to have in this animal (by which I mean, dont expect this to be a friendly animal... even if its friendly now, that could EASILY change in future, and with children, you need to be extremely careful)
-what kind of owners you are looking to be to this animal
and lastly
-why you wouldnt want to get an Ackie over a Nile
(ackies stay relatively small, have a nice disposition and are far easier to care for in the long run than a Nile)

sidbarvin Apr 23, 2007 12:35 AM

Six feet for a lizard that could, ideally, reach 6 feet or more? Think again. These monitors are highly active if kept in proper conditions. Some say an 8'x 4'x 4' is minimal for Niles. Others say the cage should be as wide as the lizard is long and twice the length of the lizard. This formula gives you 6' x 12'. Also they love to and need to dig burrows. So how tall should the cage be if you have 2 or three feet of dirt in the bottom? Five, six, seven? Beats me. I keep my 2 Niles in a 10' x 13' bedroom with around 1500 pounds of dirt mounded up in the biggest kiddie pool I could find. There are burrows all through the dirt pile and I have a mind to double the amount of dirt. They use every inch of the room. Also theres lots of stuff for them to climb on in there and kiddie pools full of water that is changed every time the crap in them. Still sometimes I feel guilty as if I'm not giving them enough. The reason I feel that way is probably because I'm not. In the wild these animals are known to have a range of 2 or 3 miles at least thats what I read. I would think the range would be larger but I know nothing about that. Like I sait mine have a range of 130 sq ft and they use every single bit of it.

Roger

roadfamily6now Apr 23, 2007 01:59 AM

Great advice guys, thank you!
We are still in the consideration stage. We do have a savhanna monitor so we sotra know the monitor thing, but the nile is by far a much bigger and more difficult animal and we want to make sure we really know what we are getting into before we do this.
-----
Tammy, Doug, Skylar, Andrew, Aaron, Lessley
3 cats (azul & chester & baby kitty)
Many fish and snails and frogs
1 Black Lab (Yeti)
1 Savannah Monitor (Lucifer)
1 Ball Python (Godzilla)

roadfamily6now Apr 23, 2007 01:59 AM

eee gaads, my spelling is horrible!
-----
Tammy, Doug, Skylar, Andrew, Aaron, Lessley
3 cats (azul & chester & baby kitty)
Many fish and snails and frogs
1 Black Lab (Yeti)
1 Savannah Monitor (Lucifer)
1 Ball Python (Godzilla)

nhatgia90 Apr 23, 2007 02:11 AM

I dont think the cage needs to be as wide as the lizards length because when a lizard turns his tail can bend, it's not like it's stiff and wont bend. Pay a lot of attention to the length to give him a lot of space and height so you can put substrate. Sidbarvin do you have a pic of your enclosure for your nile? I want to see that massive cage.

roadfamily6now Apr 23, 2007 01:11 PM

I'd love to see picks of these cages. So far, housing and caring for a Nile sounds pretty indimidating.......I guess it should be!
But I am still curious to see what you all house the bigger ones in. Most of the info I am finding if for baby monitors.
-----
Tammy, Doug, Skylar, Andrew, Aaron, Lessley
3 cats (azul & chester & baby kitty)
Many fish and snails and frogs
1 Black Lab (Yeti)
1 Savannah Monitor (Lucifer)
1 Ball Python (Godzilla)

FR Apr 23, 2007 05:40 PM

Heres the thing, there are almost no(very few) suitable cages out there. Many of us have cages that are leaning in the direction of being OK, but great cages for large monitors are nearly non exsistant.

With that in mind, there are very few larger adult niles and Savs surviving, muchless thriving.

Those two species are almost never bred in captivity(true captivity) In all the years I have come to this site, there has been a couple females of both species produce hatchlings. And mainly for one season then stopped(which shows lack of support)

I do not keep either species, but I have many generations of many species, as well as some wonderful individual achievements. Like I have a female I hatched and raised, she just laid her 66th clutch. I had a gouldi female lay 20 clutches in two years and an ackie lay 17 clutches in 18 months. Two out of those three females are still alive and producing.

I mention that to show what support can achieve. The larger the monitors get, the results drop like a stone. Which indicates lack of support.

Heres a pic of a pair of lacies,

The female(gravid in this pic) has passed and George is now at least 22 years of age, presently his girl friend is now gravid. In human years, George is about 140, hahahahahahahaha. of course that pic was when he was much younger. He has slowed down a tiny bit and gained some around the middle, but what the heck, hes old.

You are far better off to acquire a smaller species and learn what monitors are, before taking on large species. good luck

FR Apr 23, 2007 09:52 AM

Some things for Roger to think about. First how far they "can" range in the wild is sorta like saying you can swim like that Phelps fellow or the Thorpedo(retired). That is the exception. In fact, monitors do not range very far at all, unless they are forced to by not finding what they are looking for. If they cannot find what they need, they roam.

To understand the above is very very important in understand monitors(all reptiles) in nature and in captivity.

Wild and captive monitors if supported grow up and seek to fullfil their design. When wild monitors find a suitable area that supports them, they STAY there. Roaming is for reason, its to find a place(tools) to support them. If they find it, they do not roam. Its kinda very very simple. Unfortunately, those science guys do not understand what monitors DO in the first place, so they cannot understand when or why they roam to find it. They list a range they will or have used, but they do not offer context to explain why they use it. In many cases the larger distances are because they have radios installed in the monitors and they are running from humans with antennaes growing out of their heads.(other predators can cause the same reaction, sans the radio)

In other words, the individuals that stay put, do so because they are successful, the individuals that roam, do so because they are not successful. The successful ones are seeking to stay successful. The unsuccessful individuals are seeking to become successful. Simple if you think about it.

Its important that you understand this. They do not dig excessively unless the reason they dig is not met. They dig to make a suitable burrow(home/shelter) If allowed to make a suitable shelter, they slow down the digging almost to a stop.

If they want to feed all the time, that means they are not fed enough, it really is that simple. Of course the husbandry conditions must support the use of that much energy.

If they bask all the time, that means the reason they bask is not being met either. Are you getting this?

I once told a story of my female Lacie, a sweet thing she was. She loved her cage and me. She never tried to get out. I could leave the door open(did many times) and she would not leave. Except for when she was about to lay eggs. She would sit and look into the cages next to hers. She would dig at the side trying to get over. So what am I to do? I cut a hole in the cage and added a door and of course she went right over and laid her eggs and came back. Don't ask me, her cage had the same(to my eyes) stuff the other cage had, in her cage.

I said she liked me because everytime I went into the cage she would come over and lay her head on my lap(attending) I think she bonded to me as she was the first female I hatched and I could not keep my hands off her.

The point I am trying to make is, while a healthy adult nile is indeed a large lizard and even your room is too small. The actual size of the cage can be minimized by including the actual needs of the individual.

In your case, a kidding pool of dirt is more about kidding yourself then supporting the needs of the nile. Thats very common here on this site. You put in a kidding pool of dirt, ONLY so you can say you did what you were told they needed. Thats dirt and you put it in there. But does that dirt allow what the monitors are tying to accomplish?

There are a few books with diagrams of burrows. They show a tunnel then a den. Oh like any old animal burrow. I think one shows a pop up or escape burrow, incase something comes in the main entrance(a snake) The reality is, those are simple burrows. You know like a house a first grader would build, compared to an adult. There are indeed dozens of different kinds of burrows.

Of course the base is the simple tunnel with a den. Then of course there are tunnels with several dens, then networks of tunnels connecting all sorts of different rooms. There are burrows they use for long periods(complicated) and simple overnight burrows like those drawn, in those books, a short tunnel ending in a sleeping area.

The problem is, your monitors are not making overnight burrows, as they live there, they are attempting to make living burrows, you know the complicated ones. They will keep digging until they make the most minimal of living shelters.

I say this in hopes you understand, they do not dig to dig, they dig to accomplish a goal. They do not hunt to hunt, they hunt to catch something. They do not bask to bask, they bask to reach a certain temp. I say this to help you understand, if they accomplish their goals, then they are no need for roaming.(extenting the area needed to support a goal/task)

Please consider, this also means having a mate. They will roam to find and attend a mate. Once they do so, they will stay in the area of that mate for as long as they can. Their whole life is allowed.

Provide all these things and you can keep the cage size to a minimum. This is key to understanding wild and captive monitors. Cheers

roadfamily6now Apr 23, 2007 01:15 PM

Great, I am loving all this advice. I appriciate your candor.

Thank you.
-----
Tammy, Doug, Skylar, Andrew, Aaron, Lessley
3 cats (azul & chester & baby kitty)
Many fish and snails and frogs
1 Black Lab (Yeti)
1 Savannah Monitor (Lucifer)
1 Ball Python (Godzilla)

sidbarvin Apr 23, 2007 08:16 PM

Hi Frank, yes, this I understand. When I have more time I would like to share some of the rescent behaviors I've been seeing. Very interesting stuff to me. Ive had them together now for over a month and they seemed to have formed an alliance. They were coming to me for feeding and just curiosity. Now that they are together they seem to have changed their minds about me. In short, they no longer want anything to do with me. More later. Thanks FR.

Roger

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