Reptile & Amphibian Forums

just got this little one in and omg is it amazing cant wait to see what it look like at 4-6 feet

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Albinos Unlimited home of the Jester ball.
website coming soon

So I guess theirs no need for me to write you a check?

I understand and cant blame you for holding on to this baby, hopefully this will not be one more un-reproductive albino nil’s!

Albinounlimited sure sounds promising!

if it kills me on way or the other i will breed it lol

yeah this is the nicest albino i have seen todate and i just cant sell it.
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Albinos Unlimited home of the Jester ball.
website coming soon

Absolutely beautiful!

Keep us posted with pics as it gets older.

It looks more hypo than albino_ does not look like any other albino nile I have seen. Big Jim

its for sure an albino.. bright red eyes etc.. Really nice compared to others ive seen.

Beau

Well kiss my grits I am wrong! be nice to see some decent pics though. Big Jim

That's as albino as albino gets!

Great looking Nile. I can't wait to see pictures as it grows. Good luck!

There are two basic types of albinos, T-(negative) albinos and T (positive) albinos. This one appears T as it has browns/orangebrowns, etc. Cheers

for sure has more rich colors and a lavender type color.. Bright red eyes tho.. the photo does make it look darker than it is.. but could be a true T pos albino.. Most of the others are from what ive seen T neg

Hi Beau, I agree, from a pic, its hard to tell, both types of albinos are considered true albinos. So its fine either way. Personally I like colors, so the more colors the better.

Most T- albino monitors are not very appealing, when adult.

I believe the albino dums had lots of color, like a T

Cheers

I see that virtually every person in this thread has referred to amelanistic monitors as being either "T-positive" or "T-negative", with even some individuals arguing about the basis for the V. niloticus pictured.

My question to all of you is, how do you know that the differences in forms of amelanism which you speak of are in fact the result of abnormalities in the presence or absence of the amino acid tyrosine? What is this based on?

Did the exporter have blood work done on this animal? Did the importer? Did the new owner? What about the countless other amelanistic herp taxa out there. How many of these have actually been tested for the presence or absence of tyrosine?

Who has actually done such tests (if any), and for which herp taxa?

I see such labels as utter heresay, considering they lack any supportive data/evidence (at least in Varanus). Unfortunately, such "made-up" labels are so regularly practiced (and proliferated) among the herp hobbyist community in an attempt to describe they physiological basis of phenotypic traits which they have absolutely no understanding of.

hmm.. the tests have been done on some amelanistic snakes that have been Neg and Pos for melanin. Based on those tests there is a certain look the animals have. Both should have red eyes. The T neg have no dark pigments and T pos can have some darker pigments.

Its not really possible to test every type of morph out there to give it a scientific label.

But as long as there is a standard name that is generally used for certain morphs and buyers and sellers are on the same page, what does it matter??

He could take it down to the dermatology dept at the university and have them to a dopa test, but why??

I do agree there are some morphs called T POS that are probably more hypo or something else, they dont have red eyes etc.

But this nile, in my opinion, its pretty easy to tell that its some form of albino (amelanistic)

Thank you for your response, Beau. I was looking more into which specific species this has been tested in, as I am aware that this 'labeling' originated in use with snakes. From what I have gathered from talking with many different people, most have the same response as yours, ie. "some snakes were tested", yet nobody knows which specific taxa and by who; which supports my statements of this being proliferated throughout the hobby, without any proof supporting it.

The reason why I brought up the T+ and T- labeling, is that the expression of such a phenotypic trait as amelanism, is controlled by many different factors (gene expression, metabolic pathways, etc.), and is not limited to the presence or absence of tyrosine. There are more than two 'forms' of amelanism, with varying degrees of the lack of melanin. This can be observed within several species maintained in captivity, where each particular form of albinism is not compatible with one another. Would the "t+" and "t-" classification system work in such a situation?

Is tyrosine always involved in the expression of amelanism? Is amelanism in varanids the result of the same genetic and physiological components as in pythons? boas? colubrids? birds? humans?

My point is that nobody knows the basis of these traits (at least in varanids, and most likely the majority of snakes as well), and the use of the old, 't+' and 't-' system is not useful or representative of the traits expressed. Without knowing a thing about it, how can we say that something is t+ or t-?

the tests were done by dr bern bechtel

he tested corns, gophers, black ratsnakes and i think a few others. His tests werent dna based, but were done with skin samples looking for tyrosine and tyrosinase amoung others. He used a dopa reaction test to detect this... He tested different pigments areas on normals and albinos.

Im sure there has been other tests, im not sure offhand. I dont think there are any dna test that are working with the site location for the albino locus etc. They can do parental dna test to see if the offspring are in fact from a certain parent that can prove if they would be het or not.

anyhow, the source is:

Reptile and Amphibian Variants By H Bernard Bechtel

Beau

Thank you very much Beau, I will look into that literature.

Hi Beau, T- means a total lack of Tyrosine. Therefore no melanin what-so-ever. T means an abnormal amount of melanin. Which is exhibited with browns, oranges, etc, but not black. Because its not a total lack of Tyrosine, it does not have to be consistant. Some have more color then others.

So you do not have to test them, all you have to do is look. If they have melanin, then they cannot be T-. If they have pink eyes, and lack black, but have various degrees of dark(which means melanin exsists) colors, it has to be T .

I guess it boils down to two things. The ability to read. When I mentioned it earlier, I said, appears to be. Which means unconfirmed. And expertise. Those with experience, like you and I can very accurately tell by simply looking. So yea, I hope this helps you explain it to him. Cheers

that is a croc monitor not a nile

Interests me. You seen to have hobbyist against and you need "scientific" confirmation.

Which is great, But, in this case, albinos, all albinos, are mutants and mutants such as this and other non-naturally successful color and patterns are of very little interest to science. They really should not be concerned with such things.

They are however important to the hobbyist and to herpeticulture. So its absolutely wonderful that hobbyist coin names(however silly and however accurate) for the animals they keep. They name them for their benefit. Which is what its all about. The language they use is their language and they are entitled to it. Much like science is entitled to have their own language.

Of particular interest is, this is a site for "PET HOBBYIST" of many types. The people on this site are mainly concerned with the HOBBY and are hobbyist. So yes, their terms need no other confirmation. cheers

Hi Frank.. hope all is well in tucson, at least its a lot cooler there, haha. Its already over 107 up here.

You making the fl trip this year or no?? Was good seeing you and david..

anyhow.. ya.. it has more color, prolly a T pos albino.. I think you are right.. I hope Jon can reproduce them. On a small scale though, just not that many qualified nile keepers.. Jons going to do a large type enclosure in the basement!!

this rainbow looked albino but had darker eyes!! hmm, weird, better get a test..

I am looking forward to seeing nw pictures as the lizard grows.
Call me strange, but I think when I see it covered with dirt it will only be prettier.

Scott
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Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

Hello,
Is that an ornatus or niloticus? If it is an ornatus, I think you might have the first albino ornatus around... Best to you- Mike

>>Hello,
>>Is that an ornatus or niloticus? If it is an ornatus, I think you might have the first albino ornatus around... Best to you- Mike

Thanks

the pictures keep coming out a little darker than the animal really is

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Albinos Unlimited home of the Jester ball.
website coming soon

Try shaded WB when taking flash photos, this should make the lavender stand out.