Reptile & Amphibian Forums

You asked me what’s the deal with my nil’s and are they special?

Well yes and no, yes they are special to me, NO cause they are just nil’s to you, I guess it’s a matter of how we view them, I can glorify them in every possible way, and you can make them as ordinary as you want.
This has no importance and doesn’t take anything away from these monitors (as they are in my care, not yours)

I kept a few locals of niloticus, these have the best temperament iv seen yet, in my opinion they are good candidate as captives.

My experience has tough me that varanids disposition is inherited, breeding 100 generation of nervous nil’s (if they breed?) will not make them any less nervous (its an inherited trait)
This new local I have is not a wary and nervous nil, in fact they happen to be one of the best tempered monitor iv seen yet, trust me iv seen a few.

So yes this makes them somewhat special to me, I don’t care if they are not to you or anyone else, but for those interested to know, they are not like typical nil’s, even though they may look exactly like other nil’s, they don’t act like them.

Will this behaviour change? Maybe but I have no reasons to think they will change, fundamentals are changed with life experience, good experience can only improve fundamentals, bad experiences will crew up any beings.

I guess it’s up to me then?

As for your other question about dirt, dirt is not the holy grail solution to all captive monitors, it’s a tool like many other tools we use to serve a purpose, sometimes its needed, appropriate, recommended other times its not. At least that’s how I use tools.

All animals are special, dont get me wrong.

Every life is valuable- I didnt mean it to sound like I was putting your animals down, ya know?

I just meant, and Im sure you can understand this as someone whose dealt with Niles, why are they as 'tame' as you claim they are? You answered that with the local- im sorry, I dont buy that.

Genetics is not the ONLY place that nervousness comes from- youd have to be a fool to believe that. You even say it below:

"Will this behaviour change? Maybe but I have no reasons to think they will change, fundamentals are changed with life experience, good experience can only improve fundamentals, bad experiences will crew up any beings. "

Behaviorally, those animals WILL change as they come of age. Those are young animals, as they grow and learn, they are going to become more aware of themselves as beings and be less willing to allow a creature (who was once a giant, but is now slowly seeming less and less huge) to muck with it.

And yes, theres a (good) chance that, if you keep everything 100% and never, ever do anything to 'insult' them, that they may keep that 'friendly' disposition- but I wouldnt hold my breath. Theres alot of 'bad experiences' that can occur that would have little, if anything, to do with you; but which would still bring about what you would consider a 'negative' reaction from your animals.

What if they have a lil tussle, one gets injured, and you need to take it out and go to a vet. Its highly stressed, in pain, and now in a strange environment.... thats not going to be a good experience, you see what im saying?

You cant just expect that your nice lil baby Niles, despite a 'friendly' local, are going to maintain their youthful disposition as they age- its just foolish to think such a thing.

My Nile was the kindest, friendliest lil animal in the world when he was your animals size- couldnt hurt a fly and wouldnt if he could.

Now, thats not the case. If I were to go in that room and stick my hand in, and this is a new occurance which scared the hell outta me the first time he did it, he sometimes comes up and lays underneath it or climbs my arm to have a look see at me.If I try to grab him though, or move him forcibly in any way, Ill get the neck puff, the low hiss, and maybe a slightly open mouth.
If YOU went in and stuck your hand in that cage, youll get bit- theres no question in my mind. You try to grab him, and not only will you get bit, youll also be clawed and crapped on, as well as tail whipped to boot. Others have tried, thats the reaction they got.

This shows ME, at least, that the nervousness wasnt so much caused by genetics, but likely something that happened to him during his long voyage. Its all a matter of trust- if your animal trusts you, they will show it; if they dont, well, theyll show that too.

At a young age (small size) a Nile monitor dosnt really have a whole ton of options when it comes to a human grabbing them- and, likely, their experience in their very short lives showed them that, if a human DOES grab you, the best (ie, least pain, quickest, simplest session of handling) thing to do (as the lizard) is to let it happen with as little fuss as possible.

As they mature though, and you start to look less and less like a danger(as they grow), and more and more like a pestering agent (as they become territorial), the chances of them maintaining the attitude of a juvenile seems very, VERY unlikely to me.

With the dirt.... well, let me put it this way: you and I have completely different outlooks on animals in captivity.

I believe it was you who claimed they were not 'torturing' their new monitors by not giving them a secure hide or substrate to burrow into... I wouldnt go so far as to say you are 'torturing' them, but that certainly isnt good for their mental state.

Im not bringing an animal into my home strictly for the fact that 'i think its cool and i want it'. Its not an item to be placed and ready for me to view at any time I desire. It is not an object for me to manipulate.

Its an animal, a living breathing thing, that deserves... no, that I am RESPONSIBLE, to provide for.

I accept that responsibility because of the animal itself, and the interaction I have with it; and I cherish every moment I get to spend in his presence.

I cherish it because, in my case, he has the option of simply going underground everytime he sees me and ignoring me, or staying completely out of sight at all times- but he dosnt.

He dosnt run when I come to the cage, he dosnt flee when I open it. We are a level now where the trust is deep enough that I can even touch him, and though he knows that he COULD sink his teeth in, he CHOOSES not to.

Thats a hell of a thing, at least for me.

Frank said something that made me think in one of his croc monitor posts from the other KS forum- handling of monitors when they are young is habit forming.

You handle them when they are little, and then want to continue to do so as they grow- well, thats just a bad idea.

That lil Nile can grow into a formidable predator, something that, at its full adult size, could likely give a croc monitor a run for its money in terms of damage done by a bite; especially if it wasnt just a lil play bite, and more of a territorial/predatory response.

Mainly, I just worry that people take these things too lightly- they dont respect them enough; yet they do trust them, and thats a bad combo.

Trust without respect is dangerous, especially with something that can seriously injure your ass at a larger size... ya get what Im saying man? Not trying to argue, just trying to give you my outlook on things.