Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I apparently suck at this but will say that I think the first and last monitors are male. They are competing more lately. I think the middle one is female. But I most certainly could be all wet and totally wrong. Which is why I would love your experienced input and opinion.
TIA
Sonya

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Sonya

I'm not mean. You're just a sissy.
Happy Bunny

in the same order

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Sonya

I'm not mean. You're just a sissy.
Happy Bunny

in the same order

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Sonya

I'm not mean. You're just a sissy.
Happy Bunny

>>in the same order
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>>Sonya
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>>I'm not mean. You're just a sissy.
>>Happy Bunny
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Sonya

I'm not mean. You're just a sissy.
Happy Bunny

Sorry but its the other end thats important. Head structure is only telling in relationship with the body. Of course that is with animals that do not YELL at you what sex they are.

One thing, one pic has orange eyes, the bottom one, that is a male characteristic on many varanid species. I do not keep savs, so I do not know about them. So with the only evidence I can go by, the bottom is male. Cheers

>>Sorry but its the other end thats important. Head structure is only telling in relationship with the body. Of course that is with animals that do not YELL at you what sex they are.
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>> One thing, one pic has orange eyes, the bottom one, that is a male characteristic on many varanid species. I do not keep savs, so I do not know about them. So with the only evidence I can go by, the bottom is male. Cheers

See, now I could have sworn that someone said that head shots of savs helped sex them.....maybe 'cause the manual does some such. I gotta dig it out.
I will try some body shots too.
For me they are ...(yes I name them)
Top- Lula 5.6# and about three yrs (got at over a foot unknown age)2plus years ago
Middle- Stub 4# beat up rescue that lost couple of inches of it's tail to a cagemate at it's last owner but is coming out of her shell and eats well. Got last year at about a pound less.
Bottom- Vosh 4.5# had nearly five years and got as a tiny hatchling. Always been very mellow and lets the other two bully it off of food. But has been my guinea pig for learning care. I don't know if length helps a lot as they are nearly proportionate for their weight. Though I can measure that too.

They did okay for sharing (no obvious dominance) and eating until I added the center one, who is youngest and smallest. I was thinking I am gonna separate them some way just so the top one can give the others a break from her gluttony. She just storms them for food. That and or I will just separate them for feeding every day....which could be a pain. Distance doesn't do it.....Lula swallows 3X faster than the others. Monster. They are up for a new enclosure if the landscaper ever dumps my 3 ton of dirt I ordered. (NO, it is NOT all for them.)
Though the addition of the third may not be the trouble....may just be an age thing or a spare room thing. All three did take off for growth again when I added Stub last year.....so I don't know what to make of it.
The bottom one is the one that seems shoved off the prime basking spot while the other two 'share'. The prime disagreement is over food directly.
And since I learned more from snakes I am not sure of this monitor sharing thing.
Should they each have their own enclosures? How would you house them? Anyone? Are males the dominant ones usually or do the girls have say in stuff too?
Thanks for reading it all.
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Sonya

I'm not mean. You're just a sissy.
Happy Bunny

check out our monitor sexing FAQ, especially the hemipenal bulge pics. with a juvie Sav, you should be able to see hemipenal bulges pretty plainly...
Pro Exotics FAQ on monitor sexing

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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

Hi Robyn, This is something that really confuses me. I have no problem simply looking at that base of the tail and very obviously knowning what sex most young monitors are. Yet, other folks cannot do that. Even when they post decent pics here, its still confusing.

I had this on my mind, then all of a sudden it came to me. I noticed a difference, these individuals that are hard to sex, are a bit overweight, not obese, just thick. Our animals are normally skinny as juvis and of course their bulges are very obvious. I do not even have to pick them up, just point and say, that ones a male, that one is not.

Also, this little bit of extra weight confuses the head size/shape relationship, when looking for other cues to confirm sex.

My feeling is, these individuals are a tab bit under metabolized. THat is, they are normal but do not have the ability to use that extra energy.

I also noticed that the circumstances that causes some of our animals to become temporarily overweight. Its this, if they hatch in the fall, then we can have low temps(winter) and they can store extra fat. In the summer, both indoors and out, there is no possible way to store fat as its friggin way too hot.

So it comes to this, its much harder to sex young overweight individuals than skinny ones. An extreme example is sexing wild caught skinny individuals is so bloody easy, you can tell yards away. Just something to think about. Cheers

I think this is my trouble. I can do Bearded Dragons with fair accuracy.
Everting is out....none are male or none have everted completely...so that is no help.
Right now these guys are tubby tailed from the winter. Though now they have kicked into wanted to EAT so I am thinking will thin out a little. Nothing like the lard butt savs I have seen. But not skinny.
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Sonya

I'm not mean. You're just a sissy.
Happy Bunny

Hi Sonya, I feel I should ask, why are you concerned with what sexes they are?

After that, from the amount of time you have had them, they must be males. Females either drop eggs or die of some reproductive complication, between the first and second year(if healthy).

Also with medium to larger monitor species, the males are normally way more aggressive feeders.

May I warn you, need overwelms gender. There are times when females will take food from the males, and that is very funny to see. Other then feeding, sexing monitors by behavior is about 100 times less accurate then anyother method. Ok, its not that bad, but its only to be used in conjunction with other characteristics. Or pop them and know in a minute. Cheers

"pop them and know in a minute"
Do you realize what you just did?
Every newbie with a brand new imported sav that reads this is going to be sayin, "Pop them?" without knowing what they are doing or looking for.
Yet, we both know they will be trying to figure it out.
Those poor, poor lizards.
Just for that, if I ever meet you in Daytona or elsewhere, I will not buy you more tham 3 drinks before I cut you off.

Scott
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Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

Hmmmmmmmmm now that you say that, those newbies may think I meant blow them up, hahahahahahahahaha. Oh well, at least thats quick. Cheers

Ha Ha Ha Yes fellas this newbie tried "popping" my nearly five foot Nile, Marvin when I caught him in the water one day. Since I was reading all the stuff about "popping" on your site Frank, I figured why not try it out. I flipped him over without much fuss, but as soon as I tried his ass tightened up like a steel trap and he scratched (more like lacerated) both forearms into a bloody mess. Good fun! I would recommend all newbies try it, heh heh.

Roger

Thanks, that was really funny. I indeed enjoyed that.

I have lots of memories of me doing things that did not work out so well, FOR ME. hahahahahahahahahaha.

I think niles and projectile feces is one of them. Cheers

I once knew a mangrove that had pretty good aim from about 8 feet away. I seriously thought about wearing a rain poncho around him!

AH

>>Hi Sonya, I feel I should ask, why are you concerned with what sexes they are?
>>
>> After that, from the amount of time you have had them, they must be males. Females either drop eggs or die of some reproductive complication, between the first and second year(if healthy).
>>
>> Also with medium to larger monitor species, the males are normally way more aggressive feeders.
>>
>> May I warn you, need overwelms gender. There are times when females will take food from the males, and that is very funny to see. Other then feeding, sexing monitors by behavior is about 100 times less accurate then anyother method. Ok, its not that bad, but its only to be used in conjunction with other characteristics. Or pop them and know in a minute. Cheers

I don't NEED to know. But I wouldn't mind getting an idea. I am redoing their enclosure and working with them more lately, so had a chance to take picts.
I did get a bit worried that I hadn't seen anyone digging frantically or eggs etc. Since there was some talk about eggs and binding I was thinking of that also. Didn't know if I could lose a girl to it. Since the oddball one is the coming up on that age I was concerned.
Good to know that 'need overwhelms gender'.
SO, If I have all boys what are the chances I will need to separate them? Bullying I can deal with as long as it doesn't become dangerous to each other.
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Sonya

I'm not mean. You're just a sissy.
Happy Bunny

First, I would not worry about what has happened to others. The reason is, eggbinding is from very poor husbandry. Not from being a female. If your going to go by what most others have happen, then you may as well get rid of them now.

Just work on keeping them healthy. Healthy females can lay eggs, infertile or otherwise, nested well or otherwise. The problem is, unhealthy females can't.

Also, both sexes evert very well. Mine monitors rarely evert for any reason, others see their montiors evert all the time. Yesterday, one of my old females really everted. Cheers

Ok, its not that bad, but its only to be used in conjunction with other characteristics. Or pop them and know in a minute. Cheers

Yikes! I just couldn't. Call me a sissy but I don't even pop tiny baby Children's Pythons. I just don't like it. And thankfully I don't need to know gender until they are old enough to probe.
But probing doesn't work for monitors right?
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Sonya

I'm not mean. You're just a sissy.
Happy Bunny

n/p

Good it works, or that they are an expert at probing...
NEVER, EVER, PROBE A VARANID, you can and will only do permanent damage to them. Probing does not work on monitors period, even if you could do it safely, under anesthesia, it tells you nothing. I have had enough male and females of the same species that had hemipenes, and hemiclitori that were the same length at the same body size or even females with longer hemiclitori.
Anyone who says they can probe a monitor is a butcher!!!
Next, popping them, if done wrong it tells you nothing, next it can give you a false answer if you do not get a full eversion or know what you are looking for or at with that species, all varanids sexual organs are different by species. Also you can do permanent damage if done wrong.
Use secondary characteristics, when you know enough about your monitors you will be able to tell them apart by looking at them.
Also by the way males and females both mount each other, its a dominance display, so that doesnt tell much either.

Hello Sonya,
Would you post some full body pics of these animals? Thanks-Mike