Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I will be relocating from Miami FL to San Antonio Texas. One of my plans is to create an outdoor habitat for my Sav. I will be in "Hill Country" and I've already found a few scorpions. My concern is that my Sav will also find these and attempt to eat them.

I know in the wild, Savs have been known to eat Emperor and some Buthid scorps, but to quote another... "North American Scorpions have very different venom than African Scorpions".

Has anyone here fed their Sav a Centruroides vittatus scorpion or has had a Sav tagged by this species of scorp? what was the outcome?

Monitors simply love to eat scorpions, even the small varanid species(ackies love and I mean love them) As to what species may or may not be toxic to your sav., only you can find that out. Good luck

Do you feed scorps to your Monitor? What species of Monitor do you own and what sp. of scorp do you feed it?

I have no doubt that my Sav will try to eat scorps. The problem is it would not be under controlled conditions.

I think Frank lives out west in... What, Arizona?

Plenty of scorps there, methinks.

Frank, aren't a lot of your Varanids outside a lot of the time?

I'm sure random scorps wander into enclosures now and then and are met with a swift demise. Not controlled conditions at all.

...Of course, I could be wrong, in which case Frank can correct me. :]
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1.1 Ornate Uromastyx [Re and Wadjet]
1.0 Eastern Kingsnake [Duke]
1.0 Savannah Monitor [Zephyrus]
1.0 Quince Monitor [Poe]
0.1 Eastern Box Turtle [Abel]
0.2 Leopard Geckos [Ghost and Ankh]
1.0 Green Iguana (Rescue Mission) [Spikeless]

You are absolutely correct. I do live in Southern Az and we have 28 species of scorps(so I am told).

Whats funny is, I can tell what they do not eat, as it stays in the cages. Which is, black widows and tarantulas, and a few beatles.

Your right scorpions are quickly consumed. Oh and of course included in that mess of species is the bark scorpion.

As I mentioned, ackies think scorps are candy. You toss them one and they go crazy looking for more. Cheers

Hello Alex,
FR is exactly right- they love'em... Never had a problem with scorpions but paper wasps and fire ants will do great harm- be sure to keep them clear of your pen. Best to you- Mike

Thank you everyone for your insightful comments. Except for Mike... Now he has me worrying about paper wasps and ants!

You all have mentioned that the monitors love to eat scorps, but aside from one person in a different thread, who feeds his monitor the vittatus species without its stinger, no one has mentioned that they have SEEN their own Sav feed on a scorp (of any sp.)with stinger and had the Sav receive no ill effect.

Maybe I'm just not reading into the comments, but has anyone actually dropped a vittatus (or similar bark scorp) into the cage of a Sav (other monitors may have different resistance to venom), watched it get tagged, and still eat the scorp with no ill effect?

honestly I cant see their stinger penetrating the monitor's hide. I have seen some large emperors tag a small sav like crazy and not come close to penetrating. I have seen large rats bite down with all they've got onto a large bt's face and not leave a mark. Now if the scorp got the monitor's eyes or something...

sorry as far as actual knowledge or experience with a very hot scorp actually injecting venom...no idea.

Tom

Hello Alex,
I just want to redirect your concerns toward pests that will make a difference or difficulty in the outdoor life of a monitor in FL. Both of the pests that I mentioned are easily controlled if you are paying attention to your animals regularly. Also, about your other question, I would imagine that a scorpion could cause harm, but I have never seen harm done yet. I have been stung by a couple of the small species of scorpions during pinning captures- it hurt for hours but no ill affects to date... You may want to research this, but I think scorpions in general have the ability to deliver a pain toxin or change to a lethal toxin when desired. Best to you- Mike

Mike,
I know you are trying to help. I was just making light of the new concerns. While the fire ants will be a concern, they are noticeable and can be dealt with. The Paper Wasps aren't as much of a concern as the exterior habitat for the Sav will be covered, and again they are noticeable.

Adult scorpions, like snakes, can use venom or do a dry sting. They can also adjust the amount of venom that is injected. In Africa the Savannah Monitor has been known to eat Buthid scorpions as well as Emperor scorpions. If you look at the LD50 Tables (I know LD50 is invalid, but this is just as a base figure), the Emperors have an LD50 of around 40 and the Buthus occitanus has an LD50 of 0.9. In comparison, the C. vittatus in San Antonio has an LD50 of 7.7. Here we have the savannah monitor eating scorps with low venom values (Emperor) and scorps with venom more potent than C. vittatus (B. Occitanus).

The problem is that scorps, snakes, and pretty much most venomous animals develop venom to suit their prey or predators. Although the C. vittatus has less toxicity than B. occitanus, it's venom may be more suited to cold blooded animals (or less) and C. vittatus is much more venomous than P. imperator (which is the bulk of the scorps savs eat in the wild).

The reason for my original post is because these C. vittatus are so common, and it would be difficult to keep them out of enclosures (heck it's hard enough keeping them out of the house, and it has insecticide) I'm concerned for the well being of my Sav. The last thing I want is to make a great enclosure to more accurately mimic it's natural habitat and have a 2" pest harm it.