Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi all,
I have a baby Savannah Monitor that is roughly 3 months old. I have had it on a healthy diet of crickets and I just recently introduced it to pinkies. About a week ago I noticed that my Savannah hadn't had a bowel movement in a few days and I became concerned...Around this time I noticed that he was having trouble using his hind legs and seemed extremely bloated. This was a serious indicator to me that there must be some sort of intestinal obstruction. His substrate consists of "Zilla Ground English Walnut Shells Reptile Bedding", which was described as being safe for nearly any type of reptile, including monitor species. After speaking with a few of my friends who I'd consider being herp experts, I was told that this bedding could potentially have adverse affects on the dynamics of digestion.

So the question I have for anyone who knows about this type of problem...Could this bedding be the culprit? And furthermore, is there anything I can do (besides surgery, which isn't 100% effective anyways) that could correct his digestive functioning?

Thanks,
Adam

P.S. Interestingly, he has not lost vigor and has been eating normally up until now.

What you described is the exact same thing that happened to a bearded dragon that I rescued. I don't mean to scare ya, but, after $200 in vet bills my dragon still died. That's not to say that your sav won't make it though.

The first thing you need to do is make an appointment with a qualified Vet. You can always cancel the aptmt if it improves.

Next, get it off the english walnut shells ASAP. That stuff is bad news. Your sav is impacted. The paralysis you mentioned is from the impaction, its trying its best to poop but can't.

Usually, you can turn the animal over and VERY GENTLY feel of the lower part of its belly, at the base of its tail (just above the vent) and probably feel a lump of walnut shells. Sometimes you can feel it grinding. How far up into the stomach the lump goes is indicative of how severe it is. If you apply too much pressure you can damage internal organs.

Soak the sav in water that is just barely lukewarm. I recommend putting it in a plastic container with the water level at its armpits. I would also put a rock or something in there for it to rest its head on in case it gets weak, so it won't drown.

Soak it for 2 - 3 hrs, checking on it every 10 minutes or so. Hopefully this will loosen the impaction so it can pass. I find it easier to place the container with the sav in it, in a bathtub with a few inches of water in it. Its easier for me to add warm water to the tub every now & then to keep the water temp in the container at the right temp.

There's a chance that the soaking will work and may need to be repeated a few times over a few days. There's also a chance that the Vet can/will give it enemas and this can be effective, too.

Hang in there and think positive but prepare for the worst. No, I'm not saying that your sav is going to do, I don't know. I'm just letting you know that it can be severe, serious.

HH
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

ESU makes some of this labled as "Desert Blend - Lizard Litter (Ground English Walnut Shells)." I don't know if any other company produces it or not.

Check this out: (WARNING!!! These photos are graphic)
mrskingsbioweb.com/beardeddragngrossanatomy.htm

Here are some photos I took of my bearded dragon after it died from walnut shell impaction.

Here in this first pic you can see the walnut shells coming out from an incission in the lower part of the belly.

In this second pic you can see walnut shells in the lower part of the stomach and cricket remains in the upper part. She was so impacted that she couldn't digest the crickets. She hadn't eaten ANYTHING in almost 2 weeks prior to her death.

Here in this third & final pic you can see the size of the different piles. The larger pile is undeigested crickets. The smaller pile is walnut shells. It's also important to note that the first few enemas produced a pile of walnut shells about the equivalent of a tablespoon or two.

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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

First, your second paragraph in your first responce is the only good advice. TAKE IT TO A VET. and In a hurry(I added that part). Advice to you, if a person has to ask this, they surely they do not have the ability to effect a cure. Of course they could get lucky, but would you want an inexperienced person holding your life in their inexperienced hands??????? I think not!

After that its out of context. Beardeds normally consume sand to aid in digestion, to bad they do not understand that walnut shells are not sand.

Monitors do not eat gastrointestinal aids, like beardeds. They are very very careful to not consume dirt or any substrate. Of course they can and do consume a grain or two. But that will not cause problems. They always wipe their prey and shake it, etc. Beardeds on the other hand, gulp down everything and anything.

One possible exception "could be" wet frozen thawed pinkies. If they are wet, the walnut kernals could stick to the pinkies. In this case its not the pinkies that are the problem. Its SKS, ask me later, so this thread does not get deleted. Just ask what SKS means. hahahahahahahahahaha on another thread, hahahahahahahaha its a very common desease.

Dehydration is the common cause of intestinal blockage, in varanids. Ask this keeper if they have a screen lid. My bet is YES, you know the drill after that. I know that I am assuming. But in this case, the Arsessss are not me. Its those with screen lids. If I could bet on this I would, and if I could have the same percentage at being right with the lotto, I would be filthy rich. Or at least filthy. Cheers

>> After that its out of context. Beardeds normally consume sand to aid in digestion, to bad they do not understand that walnut shells are not sand.
>>

I had not heard of this with Beardies. Learn something new every day.
I have seen many get impacted. Usually on sand or walnut shell and young lizards. Would you think this is generally a dehydration thing or substrate or inadequate temps or mean combination? Certainly curious for your input. My general advice to anyone getting a beardie is to put them on dirt. Tiny babies (which we don't sell but the local Petco does) I tell them to be sure they are drinking or walls are sprayed etc and that they are on paper or something for long enough to see good poops.TIA
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Sonya

I'm not mean. You're just a sissy.
Happy Bunny

Heres the thing, natural sand is rounded(from the winds of time) store bought sand is manifactured. Its made by CRUSHING rock. This makes this type of sand, sharp. Sand is basically glass, so think of each grain of sand as broken glass. No wonder it plugs them up.

You should be wary of any products that are manifactured, by crushing, or shredding. Splinters and sharp edges is what you get. Products that are aged through sand blasting or tumbling(grape wood) are great. Cheers

"They are very very careful to not consume dirt or any substrate. Of course they can and do consume a grain or two. But that will not cause problems"

I will agree and disagree with you Frank.
The large male albig I had would go after roaches and end up eating small rocks, dirt, even sometimes tearing a chunk off a log while grabbing at a roach.
It never effected him at all, in one end, out the other.

Now, I will admit, there is a big difference between a fresh imported baby and a large, healthy adult.
I also think most of the problems are caused by bad husbandry.
Yes Frank, I blame you.
It's your fault my monitors thrive.
Maybe I should sue you for my food bill. hahahaha

Scott
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Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

If you read my post, I said, they will eat a grain or two(some) But they do not EAT sand like beardeds do. There are many lizards that eat grains of sand, even pebbles.

I kept and bred Prehensile tailed skinks for 15 years(one pair, produced 15 babies) They commonly ate pebbles. In fact, I got all fancy on them and made a naturalistic enclosure. It have a stream bank. It was all artificial, I glued real pebbles in the bank. The dang skinks worked and worked and pulled them out. AND ATE THEM. hahahahahahaha. Just a funny story. Many lizards do this.

If you looked at those beardeds stomach contains, THAT WAS NO ACCIDENT or a couple of grains along with roaches. Cheers

His advice is addictive, and can cause you to spend alot of money.
Keep in mind this picture is getting old, shes gotten a few inches larger.

Uh, can I use the timestamp on my first reply as an excuse?

You see, back when I used to drink & do unspeakable other things, I could function at 4 in the mornin'. But now, without the aid of those things, I'm worthless, hopeless, at that time of the day. LOL!

Nah, when you're a hillbilliy, that's all the excuse you need.

Alright, seriously; Dang, I thought I had that one nailed. It appears that the difference 'tween dragons & savs ingesting substrate got me.

So dehydration can cause impaction severe enough to where it causes the paralyses type actions mentioned? (I'm not doubting, I guess I'm actually asking you to explain how it does just so I'll know.)

Do monitors lose moisture so bad that it bascially dries up the fecal matter within the intestines to where it can't squeeze thru? Actually, stopping to think about it, that would definitely be SEVERE dehydration, to a very dangerous point, well beyond feces.

Well, "Dudaman05," whether you've got a sav or a dragon, get it to a Vet, and in a hurry (someone else added that part )

I stand corrected. Humbled, even.

Thanks for the enlightenment, FR.

Ya'll have a good one!
HH
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

That's why I come here. To learn.
Us hillbillies are strange folks, I for one like to be corrected and think at times.
We all have various degrees of experience, and everyone can share their experiences.
No keeper knows it all, nope, not even Frank, even though I believe he's half lizard. hahaha
I learn from the long time keepers, the newbies, (close your eyes Frank) and even the scientist.
But, my critters are the best teachers I have.

Oh, great photos HH.

Scott
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Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

Ha! Ha! I like that.

Glad you liked the pics. Ha! I was cuttin' up with my son & my wife snapped the pic.

Catch ya later!
HH
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

Just not the ones that go babbling on and doing nothing. I had great conversations with Dennis King and Dr. Ube Krebs, and Daniel Bennett, and many others. Great conversations means I learned something.

Its just the academics that bring a load of garbage. Most don't do that. It would be fine if they just shared what they DO, academic or not. But went they force academics on living animals. Its kinda a square peg in a round hole. I just wonder where those fellas get all confused with academics and husbandry. One is applied(husbandry)to living animals. The other is for classroom reading. Consider, if academics is APPLIED, its no longer academics, its now husbandry. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Actually, that is it in a nutshell. The ones that argue with me, that have never done anything REAL. Cheers

>>Just not the ones that go babbling on and doing nothing. I had great conversations with Dennis King and Dr. Ube Krebs, and Daniel Bennett, and many others. Great conversations means I learned something.

This whole thing makes me smile because I was raised by a very academic dad (my sister turned out that way too) and his dear friends are still dear family friends....a botanist wife, marine biologist dad and the kids are two doctors and professor. All academic. They come to my house and marvel at the beasties.
I remember them coming to the farm the first time and walking into the barn......HOLY MOLY THAT COW IS HUGE! Yeah, well, that is how they come. At least they still have the love of life and the humility to soak it all in.
They could give you all the book info. Latin names and all, but they didn't know a thing about behaviour or life habits for any animal. They couldn't even housebreak their silly dogs.
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Sonya

I'm not mean. You're just a sissy.
Happy Bunny

Thanks for the advice everyone!
I called the exotics vet in my area and they agree that it's likely an impaction...probably from the walnut shells...I guess I'll say that I have learned the hard way...never buy that substrate again! The vet said to give it a day of heavy soaking in warm water to see if the obstruction passes...While soaking, my sav passed a small amount of urine (calcium excretion), but wasn't able to pass anything else...If anything, I figure that the soaking will keep him hydrated for the time being, and hopefully with the lukewarm water, stimulate a BM.

Thanks all,
Adam

Somebody grab my arm, I'm goin' out on a limb, again.

Based on what I've read here in these forums, it seems to me that if you'll keep a water dish large enough for the sav to get into, provide a way into/out of, they'll usually soak themselves. I'd keep the water about shoulder height.

Keep us updated if you don't mind. I'd appreciate it.

Take care!
HH
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

Yes, dehydration causes impaction, a leading cause.

Monitors actually have a special gland at the end of the large intestine before the rectum. ITs called a C something or another. Its in a book somewhere, hahahahahaha. Its task is to remove excess water from the feces. Our large intestine does that too.

So it appears, when a monitor is dehydrated that gland removes all the water and the pellet gets stuck. Hence, Hence, Hence, hahahahahaha you see dehydrated monitors seeking water bowls to crap in. Soaking losens their bowels and out it comes. Its a bit of common sense really. Normally they have no need to soak, and no need to loosen the stools to pass them. Remember, Savs are arid land reptiles, xeric, away from water, etc. They do not live around places to Poop, hahahahahaha. They all gonna die.

Now when the fecal pellet gets stuck. The following feces builds up, NOWHERE to go. This causes all sorts of problems from pinching off the nerves to bacterial infections, to DEATH. Just plug your bum up and keep eating and see what happens to you. hahahahahahaha Cheers

> > > "when the fecal pellet gets stuck... ...builds up... ...pinching off the nerves..."

Ahh, so that's what causes the paralyses-like symptoms. The intestines, or whatever, swells, putting pressure on the nerves to where they can't function. Very interesting! And I must say that it is a pitiful sight.

Thanks for taking the time to explain this.

> > > "Just plug your bum up and keep eating and see what happens to you."

Me wife has had her foot there for years. Could explain why everyone tells me, "You're so full of crap!" Ha! Ha!

Later tater!
HH
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

Thanks for making me laugh. Cheers

If you really want to get 'anal' it's the obturator nerve that gets compressed from the impaction causing the rear legs to not function. Wood/cellulose is not digestible and swells when wet...dirt and sand don't swell and can pass in a healthy, hydrated animal. So the nutshell bedding is a poor choice for any animal period. I don't know how they get to print "safe" and "veterinarian approved" on the packaging. This stuff baffles me.

wow, even Frank forgot (or didn't bother) to mention husbandry.

i'll bet 10 bucks that is the main issue here.

impaction isn't about substrate, or feeding, it is about proper temps, and proper hydration.

a moderately experienced keeper knows that a post and request for help like this is completely USELESS without details of husbandry and setup, and since the initial post included absolutely nothing about setup, husbandry, and temps, my ten bucks is on the table that the keeper and the setup are the issue, not the animal, or any blockage, or any frozen legs.

it may be too late to save this particular animal, but i would optimize temps immediately, give a couple of good soaks to get that animal well hydrated, and still see a vet.

for this day forth, Sav keeper guy, get the Sav book by Bennett, check out the simple Sav caresheet at our site, and when you post needing help and advice, at least give folks the basic info they need to even properly comment on your issue. read more about that on our FAQ, in fact, read the whole FAQ, lots of info there as well.

best of luck.
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

Dang, sorry to hear about that. I have a BRAND NEW 10 lb. bag of English Walnut Shells from ESU REPTILES, just sitting in my room! I bought it awhile ago, because it was very CHEAP. But, I prevented myself from ever using it after MANY people told me about the whole impaction thing. That's the reason why the bag is still just sitting there, until I can find some sort of use for it. Ever thought of using plain dirt? I know your post was in June, but is he still alive??? Just wondering... If not, RIP lil sav.

Se7en,