Reptile & Amphibian Forums

There has been discussion here before about parasites and the question of treating them or leaving them untreated until they reach levels that threaten the health of the animal.

My question for those who advocate the latter is at what level do you treat? Do you wait until the animal shows signs of distress? Do you judge by the amount showing in the fecal?

I just purchased a 3 month old beardie that seems healthy. Eating well, active, good size... I did my first fecal today and saw this.

Any thoughts?
Bennett
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Bennett

www.beardiedragon.com

Are those pinworm eggs? Just guessing, I have little knowledge in actually looking at slides, but I thought that would be a pinworm egg, and the little black flecks are coccidia? Cheri? lol

Pinworm ova are more cigar shaped, I'm fairly certain those are coccidia oocysts. As far as treating the dragon. I'm a firm believer in not treating unless the animal is showing signs of illness.
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Bill DiFabio
Azteclizard.com
Email Me

oval........round.......cigar shaped...it was close, lol.

no cigar for identifying parasites!!!! LMAO, I laughed so hard I pulled a muscle in my back over this thread!!

Ok so I leave the veterinary work to the veterinarians.......but I did say it was just a guess LOL.

But that was funny!!!

Looks like coccidia I was shown at vets office.
This may be a first Aztec, i agree with you..lol
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TheClassyLizard

but since it seems all dragons have a certain level of such I have no idea how much or many showing would be considered a problem.. that would be real interesting to know.

What magnification level was that?

brandon
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Dragons by Nature

viewed at 100x and 400x. my question would be is this a normal amount or is this a high level? the stool was well formed and the animal was not exhibiting signs of illness. How do I know when the level is high or should I say to high?

this is a sample from another baby.

you can see the fecasol crystalizing. it took me a while to find these eggs.

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Bennett

www.beardiedragon.com

Well, from everything that I have read, heard, and people we've talked to, everyone pretty much agrees all dragons have coccidia.. it's obviously when the level reaches a high level is when there is cause to worry.

It's hard to say what level that is, I don't have much experience with treating parasites and levels of coccidia. We've been real lucky and have never had and problems with any of that *knock wood*

I would say though that since the stool was well formed, the dragon is eating well and not showing any outward signs of infection, disease, or sickness, I wouldn't treat the dragon. From my limited knowledge of this stuff, that did not appear to me to be a high level of oocysts... if it was only a little high it could be from the stress of moving to a new home and maybe after a week or so it would go back down to a lower level.. if it's not already low already.

My opinion would be to just keep an eye on him... if he continues to eat well, gains weight, has normal stools, and overall looks healthy i would say you are good to go. I would have him quarantined for a few months though, just in case since it's a new arrival, but i'm sure you already know that and have done that. Just saying that for others that read.

Sorry I couldn't be much help to you, but i think you should be okay. I'd test again every week for about a month and if you don't see signs of them increasing, i'd leave him be.

Very cool you can check. Wish I had the equipment to do that!

brandon
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Dragons by Nature

Try treating with Probiotic and cleaning for a week and test again. See if the levels come down...see if the body fights the levels itself. You can always take a more agressive approach. If the animal is stress free, eating, drinking and happy he/she may fight it itself.

Wouldn't you want to fight it at the early stage? So the animal doesn't go through the agony of it? So you can get prevent the stress? I think it's good you caught it before signs of illness occur, and I would treat it.
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~Julie~

Now, at the risk of getting yelled at..... IMO

The circles do look like coccidia ocysts, but what is that thing in the first pic left side getting cut out the pic?? Looks like it is possibly something else. One vet I go too will treat any amount found, and the other vet will only treat outbreaks. If the dragon I purchase is growing and putting on weight, and seems healthy. I wait till they are around 125 grams, around 4 months of age before I start a treatment. Just seems like treating a baby at such a fragile time would possibly do more harm than good. This year I was real lucky in my new additions. Chris Allen red had clean fecals 2 times already =)and one other dragon had to have a five day cycle and showed clean next test.
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Mystical Dragons

probably fecal matter on the left. since this was my first time doing fecals, this was done at my vets office with a tech and the vet in the room helping me out.

BTW these are pics from my new digital USB microscope. I got enough supplies to do a couple hundred fecals so I will be real busy. any and all suggestions welcome.
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Bennett

www.beardiedragon.com

those pics are pretty good. good clear images
what brand and optics

it is a ken-a-vision T-1252 from Mel Sobel microscopes.
my only big complaint is that the slide has to be moved manually from side to side as there is no micro adjustment to move it so you can vies the slide easier.
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Bennett

www.beardiedragon.com

yes that is a very nice set up you spent some money on this set up!

i think on that model a mechnical stage can be added mel has good stuff

ask about adding a mechanical stage to your set up shoot me an e-mail for other options they make some pretty inexpensive geniric ones tht may fit that stage

Mat

In an established animal, that was showing no signs of distress, no, I probably wouldn't treat it at those levels.

On the other hand, in a new animal that was stressed out from the changes of relocating, new surroundings, new handlers, routine etc., and that was likely to have the count increase drastically in a short period of time, then yes, I would.
And have, as a matter of fact.

We just treated two dragons a month ago that had levels about 2/3 of what you're showing there, and were showing little or no symtoms. We had already lost one from coccidia, so weren't willing to risk the other two. ( They had only been with us a little under a week. )

So for me, it comes down to choosing the lesser of two evils. Which is going to be harder on the animal, the parasite or the treatment? Is it better to allow the animal's own defences to deal with the situation, or is it worth risking other health problems later on down the road that were caused by damage from the medication?

A tough call sometimes, and just depends on the situation.

D.A.