Reptile & Amphibian Forums

ok i understand the only properly proven lines are brians and robert seibs? How many other unrelated lines do there seem to be out there?? If if not fully proven. Im pretty sure i have one, tom chiang has one, also in previous post was talk on an anery but recently i got offered some anery babies from the US thru my exporter. Was from 2 wild caught parents, im told, and was 3rd year producing, is this toms line or? Anyone else get same offered? Would loved to have got some, but looking into new cages, and excess caging and less snakes seems better than the other way around!!
Also aanata1 any chance of new pics your little anery, i will post some later of mine hopefully, my girl seems to have had a little growth spurt lately and looking real nice.
-----
Dave

2.2 Normal BRBs
2.1 Anery BRB
4.4 66% poss het anery BRB
2.5 66% poss het new european line hypo
1.1 het hypo BRB

In the mail from the states
1.1 something special BRB

aims to work out what all my 66% hets really are, and then go from there. Sky the limit, well maybe

Dave,
....There was a snake for sale as an anerythristic BRB with it's more normal colored sibling at the Daytona Expo. I looked at it and to me it looked like a normal very dark BRB. In fact I bought a BRB that was as dark from Jon Carbone a few years ago. It has grown to be a very nice very dark normal looking BRB adult. It seems to me that anerythristic BRBs have very little market value except that when there are enough amelanistic BRBs to breed them to they can be crossed. The way things are going it would seem that there will be at least 25 anerythristics available to cross to each amelanistic if and when that time comes. I like pretty colors so I am not the least bit interested in anerythristic BRBs.
Jeff

>>ok i understand the only properly proven lines are brians and robert seibs? How many other unrelated lines do there seem to be out there?? If if not fully proven. Im pretty sure i have one, tom chiang has one, also in previous post was talk on an anery but recently i got offered some anery babies from the US thru my exporter. Was from 2 wild caught parents, im told, and was 3rd year producing, is this toms line or? Anyone else get same offered? Would loved to have got some, but looking into new cages, and excess caging and less snakes seems better than the other way around!!
>>Also aanata1 any chance of new pics your little anery, i will post some later of mine hopefully, my girl seems to have had a little growth spurt lately and looking real nice.
>>-----
>>Dave
>>
>>2.2 Normal BRBs
>>2.1 Anery BRB
>>4.4 66% poss het anery BRB
>>2.5 66% poss het new european line hypo
>>1.1 het hypo BRB
>>
>>In the mail from the states
>>1.1 something special BRB
>>
>>aims to work out what all my 66% hets really are, and then go from there. Sky the limit, well maybe

i understand what you are saying Jeff, and in someways agree. I too prefer the brighter colours, but also really like the Hypos. Im more intrested, in what are in fact recessive traits, as from what i can tell so far, anery and hypos, and really are the only sure bet as in, knowing what you will get when you breed. Ie i mean, that do you ever breed too high reds etc and end up with oranges? As for market value, maybe there is and maybe there isnt a market, but i know what i paid, and i have seen that aanata1, dave etc etc have anerythristics in the collection, and im guessing they wernt free
As you said, they could be a vital tool, also combined with the hypo, once the amel snakes come available if they ever do??
-----
Dave

2.2 Normal BRBs
2.1 Anery BRB
4.4 66% poss het anery BRB
2.5 66% poss het new european line hypo
1.1 het hypo BRB

In the mail from the states
1.1 something special BRB

aims to work out what all my 66% hets really are, and then go from there. Sky the limit, well maybe

Guilty as charged, I have aneries (Sharp line) and no they were not free. I love rainbow boas and want to have all the varieties I can. Yeah the bright colorful ones are a must (and a given) but once you have all those what do you do, just have more? I figure I will have some of all I can. Currently have....

Duh, all the bright, pretty ones, reds and oranges and...
Hypo
Anery
Calico

and pattern varieties as well
No crescent (Eclipse)
Thin crescent
Bold crescent
Circular crescent (Bullseye)
Solid crescent (Pearl)
Speckled side medalions (Blush)
Dorsal striped (connected saddles)
Dorsal spaced (disconnected saddles)
Dorsal doubled (two rows of dorsal blotches, one on either side of spine)
Laterally striped (Genevieve)
Aberent (several)

Many of which are not proven genetic and likely will not be genetic. But as with Bullseye, those with more Bullseye markings tend to throw babies with more Bullseye markings.

BTW, would love to get ahold of some Walsh clown phase but that seems to have been a dead end.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

dave, what did the clown phase look like? anyone got a link to a pic?
-----
Dave

2.2 Normal BRBs
2.1 Anery BRB
4.4 66% poss het anery BRB
2.5 66% poss het new european line hypo
1.1 het hypo BRB

In the mail from the states
1.1 something special BRB

aims to work out what all my 66% hets really are, and then go from there. Sky the limit, well maybe

>>dave, what did the clown phase look like? anyone got a link to a pic?
>>-----
>>Dave
>>
>>2.2 Normal BRBs
>>2.1 Anery BRB
>>4.4 66% poss het anery BRB
>>2.5 66% poss het new european line hypo
>>1.1 het hypo BRB
>>
>>In the mail from the states
>>1.1 something special BRB
>>
>>aims to work out what all my 66% hets really are, and then go from there. Sky the limit, well maybe
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Found some Jeff posted last year....

Walsh clown phase thread
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

its like a pearl gone mental!! not exactly what i was expecting, but certainly pretty interesting.
With patterns like this, can it be cause by incubation temps inside the mother? ie from what i understand, in pythons, temperature changes with the eggs at critical times can cause different patterns or? is this possible in boas aswell? thus if a female threw a clutch of these clown phases, is it just possible that some temps caused it? also maybe causing they problems the individual babies had?
-----
Dave

2.2 Normal BRBs
2.1 Anery BRB
4.4 66% poss het anery BRB
2.5 66% poss het new european line hypo
1.1 het hypo BRB

In the mail from the states
1.1 something special BRB

aims to work out what all my 66% hets really are, and then go from there. Sky the limit, well maybe

Clearly a possibility, but they sure do look cool. Ever since I saw Jeff's I've been hoping he could produce more but nothing so far.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Everyone who got the Walsh Clown Phase animals has had poor luck with them. They were born in 2002 in a litter of 8 or 10 produced by Gary Walsh. Gary was a hobbyist breeder in south Florida. I got two of the odd looking ones. One was extemely bright orange. It was a poor feeder and grew slowly. It died here about two years ago. The other one (the plain colored one in the PICs in the link Dave posted) was also a poor feeder but is now large enough to breed. She was sort of large enough this last season but kind of borderline on the weight and did not get bred. Two others that I know of both died in other collections. One of the two did produce one normal loooking male baby before it died. The owner will probably do a breeding loan with me when it is mature. Of the 8 or 10 in the 2002 litter and 4 of them, all female had the strange patterns. I saw Gary Walsh in 2003 and he told me that he had gotten rid of his snakes because of his health problems. He died later that year or early in 2004. When the pearls starting showing up in Tom Davis's (also from south Florida) litters I wondered if he had gotten Gary's breeders but Tom told me that he had produced a few Pearls in litters back to around 2000. I do have one male pearl from Tom and will try to breed it to my Walsh Clown Phase this season.
Jeff

>>Clearly a possibility, but they sure do look cool. Ever since I saw Jeff's I've been hoping he could produce more but nothing so far.
>>-----
>>Thanks,
>>
>>
>>Dave Colling
>>
>>www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com
>>
>>
>>
>>0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
>>0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)
>>
>>LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
>>26.49 BRB
>>20.21 BCI
>>And those are only the breeders
>>
>>lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

hey jeff, just spend the last hour going thru bryan hummels pictures on his site, was wondering, is this one of the same animals as your clown?
http://rainbowboas.com/images/2006ParentsWebImages/pages/WalshFemale_feb23 007.htm

bryan certainly got some awesome looking snakes. Also i would email bryan, but been there done that. Actually tried to ring him tonight, but no luck, can someone tell me if he on the east or west coast? so i can work out the time difference.

cheers
-----
Dave

2.2 Normal BRBs
2.1 Anery BRB
4.4 66% poss het anery BRB
2.5 66% poss het new european line hypo
1.1 het hypo BRB

In the mail from the states
1.1 something special BRB

aims to work out what all my 66% hets really are, and then go from there. Sky the limit, well maybe

Dave,
...Yes, that is one of the female siblings to mine. It is amazing how much it looks like the surviving one that I have. Bryan is in Texas in the central time zone. He has probably been effected to some extent by Hurrican Ike and may be very busy right now.
Jeff

>>hey jeff, just spend the last hour going thru bryan hummels pictures on his site, was wondering, is this one of the same animals as your clown?
>>http://rainbowboas.com/images/2006ParentsWebImages/pages/WalshFemale_feb23 007.htm
>>
>>bryan certainly got some awesome looking snakes. Also i would email bryan, but been there done that. Actually tried to ring him tonight, but no luck, can someone tell me if he on the east or west coast? so i can work out the time difference.
>>
>>cheers
>>-----
>>Dave
>>
>>2.2 Normal BRBs
>>2.1 Anery BRB
>>4.4 66% poss het anery BRB
>>2.5 66% poss het new european line hypo
>>1.1 het hypo BRB
>>
>>In the mail from the states
>>1.1 something special BRB
>>
>>aims to work out what all my 66% hets really are, and then go from there. Sky the limit, well maybe

ok cheers for that, will wait a few days, thought we had it bad with the cold in finland. sounds better than hurricanes though!!!
Also am sure you wrote somewhere, that some guy had been producing pearls for a few years? You know how the 2nd generation babies turned out?
Cheers
-----
Dave

2.2 Normal BRBs
2.1 Anery BRB
4.4 66% poss het anery BRB
2.5 66% poss het new european line hypo
1.1 het hypo BRB

In the mail from the states
1.1 something special BRB

aims to work out what all my 66% hets really are, and then go from there. Sky the limit, well maybe

Nothing to be guilty about. I would only "press charges" against someone if he/she 1) didn't take proper care of his/her snakes due to laziness/lack of caring, and/or 2) knowingly misrepresented his/her snake(s). Other than that, personal preference is just that, and I enjoy hearing others' (differing) opinions without all the egotistical flaming that goes on elsewhere.

On another forum I recently got flamed for simply saying that it's none of my business what others do their snakes, as long as they meet the two criteria above. (This was in response to a question someone asked about producing hybrids.) In a nutshell, I was flamed by a young "biologist" who basically accused me of helping cause, or at least not caring about, the disappearance of snakes in the wild since I didn't speak out against a Joe Hobbyist in Milwaukee who breeds a ball to a carpet python. Besides the tortured logic of that, the irony is that I have a protected species, one that I *specifically* bought to try to play a small part in saving it from extinction.

Having said all that, now I'm trying to control my George Costanza instinct to ask you how much you paid for the anery. Remember the leather jacket episode?

Thanks,
Ed

>>Guilty as charged, I have aneries (Sharp line) and no they were not free. I love rainbow boas and want to have all the varieties I can. Yeah the bright colorful ones are a must (and a given) but once you have all those what do you do, just have more? I figure I will have some of all I can. Currently have....
>>
>>Duh, all the bright, pretty ones, reds and oranges and...
>>Hypo
>>Anery
>>Calico
>>
>>and pattern varieties as well
>>No crescent (Eclipse)
>>Thin crescent
>>Bold crescent
>>Circular crescent (Bullseye)
>>Solid crescent (Pearl)
>>Speckled side medalions (Blush)
>>Dorsal striped (connected saddles)
>>Dorsal spaced (disconnected saddles)
>>Dorsal doubled (two rows of dorsal blotches, one on either side of spine)
>>Laterally striped (Genevieve)
>>Aberent (several)
>>
>>Many of which are not proven genetic and likely will not be genetic. But as with Bullseye, those with more Bullseye markings tend to throw babies with more Bullseye markings.
>>
>>
>>
>>BTW, would love to get ahold of some Walsh clown phase but that seems to have been a dead end.
>>-----
>>Thanks,
>>
>>
>>Dave Colling
>>
>>www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com
>>
>>
>>
>>0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
>>0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)
>>
>>LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
>>26.49 BRB
>>20.21 BCI
>>And those are only the breeders
>>
>>lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

I hera ya there, I've always been "animals first", profit second. Yeah, I make no bones about it, I like selling my babies and making some money back. As long as I can keep my new acquisitions limited, this year should actually bring in more than I spent. Not exactly a "profit" when you factor in hours of labor taking care of the collection and prior year investments!!

And yeah, I also bend over backwards to be clear what I know about the individual snake!!!

I do enjoy this forum for that, the freedom to speak without fear of having the flame throwers turned on full blast.

And how exactly is breeding snakes in captivity making snakes dissapear from the wild? Yeah they all came from the wild in the first place but the demand is there. Our breeding practices produce more desireable babies than WC's and for each one we produce, that's one less demand from the wild!!!

And if a breeder wants to cross them so be it, they're his animals to do with as he sees fit (of course proper care is a given). He might prodiuce someting really cool or more likely produce something he might not even be able to give away but it's still his choice.

We see this gaining acceptance in the dog breeding world all the time. Labradoodles for example.

And I paid more than the price of a normal. That close enough for you? Hope so because that's as far as I answer. Only Brian Sharp, my wife and tax accountant know for sure!!!
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Labradoodles are no more accepted by responsible/ethical dog breeders than the hybrids are in the reptile world. I dont know any breeder personally who doesnt think its an overpriced, untested mutt created for the sole purpose of putting dollars in the scumbag breeder's pocket with little regard to the lives created. That sort of thing is absolutely not accepted, regardless of how many dateline stories are written about the fad mutts. The only ones accepting such mongrels are those peddling them.

(I know, learn to say what's on my mind...lol)

-----
Julie

www.[url ban]/gfx

In the wild no one is stopping the crossing of two "species." In fact the definition of a species is that it can't interbreed with another species and produce offspring that will produce. Therefore, if we are doing it in captivity at all means that it would happen in nature. The only difference is that the most successful babies are naturally selected and in nature the babies are artificially selected based upon traits other than "strength." So whoever this biologist is that is having a fit doesn't realize that nature doesn't care like we care to "separate" different "species" and keep them "pure." Whatever two animals "cross" and have the strongest babies, are the ones who "win." Just my 2 cents... as a biologist!
-----
7.22 BRB
10.20 BCI
1.1 Mandarin Rat Snakes
0.1 Kenyan Sand Boa
0.2 Corn Snakes
2.8 Leopard Geckos

I agree, and I've had many arguments with "purists" about this. I find no merit in most of the arguments presented by hardcore purists who criticize others. And just yesterday I was reading a reptile field guide at the book store, and I was looking at some snake species (can't remember which one), and in the description of its sub-species there was a comment something like "unfortunately, these two sub-species interbreed where their ranges overlap." Huh?? "Unfortunately?" Of all people, I would think biologists would be the first to understand that evolution is a continuum. To me, that's the whole beauty of evolution! Fellow sub-species didn't evolve separately with walls between them. It's we humans who insist on further separating animals into more specific classifications. Mother Nature could care less about our classifications. And one thing I always ask "purists" is how exactly do they know the grandfather or great-grandfather of one of there snakes wasn't an "integrade." What exactly does "pure" mean anyway? And to really add some controversy, another question for hard core "purists" is, "Should white people not marry black people?" That's always a good one.

Okay, that's my last rant for the day..

Thanks,
Ed

>>In the wild no one is stopping the crossing of two "species." In fact the definition of a species is that it can't interbreed with another species and produce offspring that will produce. Therefore, if we are doing it in captivity at all means that it would happen in nature. The only difference is that the most successful babies are naturally selected and in nature the babies are artificially selected based upon traits other than "strength." So whoever this biologist is that is having a fit doesn't realize that nature doesn't care like we care to "separate" different "species" and keep them "pure." Whatever two animals "cross" and have the strongest babies, are the ones who "win." Just my 2 cents... as a biologist!
>>-----
>>7.22 BRB
>>10.20 BCI
>>1.1 Mandarin Rat Snakes
>>0.1 Kenyan Sand Boa
>>0.2 Corn Snakes
>>2.8 Leopard Geckos

I always appreciate your rants!!
-----
7.22 BRB
10.20 BCI
1.1 Mandarin Rat Snakes
0.1 Kenyan Sand Boa
0.2 Corn Snakes
2.8 Leopard Geckos

So, how do you really feel about them, don't hold back this time!!

LOL, seriously, I'm not saying they are more accepted by responsible breeders, just that they are becoming more and more common. And somewhere in that mix (not necessarily labradoodles) there may be some halfbreed created that actually has some value.

btw, our family dog is a purebred - mutt!! A little of this and a little of that. Got her through a rescue group and we love her. Spayed of course to not make more lil muttlets.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

so i know its not quite the same but hey the way you put that "mutt a little o' this a little o' that" kinda made me think of myself lol!! hell im a mutt irish, lebineese, french, scottish, yankee (whatever that is my grandmother claims that??) lol lots of stuff plus a few others
-----
-Stephen-
-Step-
-Steve Lightning-

0.1 soon to be wifey (hopefully)
1.0 rotwiler/chow (Boomer-wifey's pooch)
1.0 norm corn (Jake aka grumpy old terdhead)
1.0 col redtail boa (Switch, formally known as Dixie)
0.1 ball python (Bella- wifey's baby girl)
0.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Saphira)

hopeful for not to distant future:
--Brazilian rainbow boas
2 or 3 more? maybe a breeding trio or two pair
-- something for the wifey... my list got to big...

Mutts tend to be biologically stronger anyway. I had a dog that must've been part shephard when I was a kid. We found this dog camping.... the owner of the camp had seen this dog thrown out of the back of a pickup truck on the highway. She lived to be 15 years old and was the smartest dog I've seen to this day. She learned to open doors and everything!! This dog one lots of prizes in 4-H (now you all know my dweeby past) which actually allows mutts in dog shows. I even took her to the state shows and she one there a few times. Proof that mutt's are just as good, if not better!
-----
7.22 BRB
10.20 BCI
1.1 Mandarin Rat Snakes
0.1 Kenyan Sand Boa
0.2 Corn Snakes
2.8 Leopard Geckos

I'll learn to say what's on my mind some day. Until then, ya'll can just keep calling me Wallflower.

You're hearing about the designer dogs more now and unfortunately they're starting to flood the shelters. Like overpopulation needed any help. I've pulled some pretty cool mutts from the shelter and rehomed them over the years. Hopefully they were all mistake litter pups and not leftovers from some jerk trying to make a quick buck.

Back to the reptiles... I can get waaaaay OT talking dog! lol.
-----
Julie

www.[url ban]/gfx

I have no clue how the "trained biologist" concluded that hybridizing any snakes, much less common species like ball and carpet pythons, leads to species disappearing in the wild. There was no logical reasoning behind that conclusion, but she sure was strongly opinionated. One thing I've learned over the years is that being a "scientist" doesn't automatically mean that the person has critical reasoning skills.

I was just kidding about wanting to know the price of the anery. I just wanted to make a Seinfeld reference. That was a great scene, when George wanted to know the price of the Jerry's new leather jacket.

Thanks,
Ed

>>I hera ya there, I've always been "animals first", profit second. Yeah, I make no bones about it, I like selling my babies and making some money back. As long as I can keep my new acquisitions limited, this year should actually bring in more than I spent. Not exactly a "profit" when you factor in hours of labor taking care of the collection and prior year investments!!
>>
>>And yeah, I also bend over backwards to be clear what I know about the individual snake!!!
>>
>>I do enjoy this forum for that, the freedom to speak without fear of having the flame throwers turned on full blast.
>>
>>And how exactly is breeding snakes in captivity making snakes dissapear from the wild? Yeah they all came from the wild in the first place but the demand is there. Our breeding practices produce more desireable babies than WC's and for each one we produce, that's one less demand from the wild!!!
>>
>>And if a breeder wants to cross them so be it, they're his animals to do with as he sees fit (of course proper care is a given). He might prodiuce someting really cool or more likely produce something he might not even be able to give away but it's still his choice.
>>
>>We see this gaining acceptance in the dog breeding world all the time. Labradoodles for example.
>>
>>
>>
>>And I paid more than the price of a normal. That close enough for you? Hope so because that's as far as I answer. Only Brian Sharp, my wife and tax accountant know for sure!!!
>>-----
>>Thanks,
>>
>>
>>Dave Colling
>>
>>www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com
>>
>>
>>
>>0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
>>0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)
>>
>>LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
>>26.49 BRB
>>20.21 BCI
>>And those are only the breeders
>>
>>lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

I have met some real dumb dumbs... even about science (even at one of the leading schools in the country like UCSD). Just because you say you're a biologist does not make you a good one! And to that effect, this biologist could be a GREAT anatomist, but a terrible geneticist. I know lots of chemists that are wonderful in one area, like inorganic (transition metals and stuff), but couldn't tell you what an ester was to save their lives (a very basic class of organic molecules, chemically speaking). It's one of life's great mysteries.
-----
7.22 BRB
10.20 BCI
1.1 Mandarin Rat Snakes
0.1 Kenyan Sand Boa
0.2 Corn Snakes
2.8 Leopard Geckos

yeah, the lack of critical reasoning skills finds its way into every group. I'm a philosopher out of that very UCSD (are you in SD?), but during some chemistry and biology courses there found some people committed to what their books said above any semblance of common sense. Those arguments about depletion of snakes in the wild seem like total bunk. If anything, the snake and larger herp community I would have to think is a positive force for the preservation and respect of these animals. I guess that's my rant.

For me, my snakes are just pets, so I don't have the considerations the breeders do, (and yes, I like the "pretty" colors, though I can't yet spend 4 figures on a snake) but I really like Ed's two rules. Ethically, an honest and informed intent to act in best accordance with the interests of the animals seems to me to be the only real consideration. If there are no known serious health problems, and if whatever health concerns there are are managed responsibly, I can't say anything towards breeders attempting these crosses, be they reptile or canine. And, personally, I have a lot of sympathy for the attitude of seeing what morph/genetics crosses will produce what, just to see the possibilities, but I know i won't be the one doing it.

Oh, and more Seinfeld references would just be *objectively* good.
-----
-Chris
cdohna.googlepages.com
1.0.0 WC SD Gopher Snake, Max
1.0.0 CB Albino Banded Cal King, Manny
0.1.0 CB BRB, Mucalinda

I am in SD, in the PhD program at UCSD for O-Chem
-----
7.22 BRB
10.20 BCI
1.1 Mandarin Rat Snakes
0.1 Kenyan Sand Boa
0.2 Corn Snakes
2.8 Leopard Geckos

I agree with Jeff, I like the pretty ones. I'll play with hypos using hets, but unless I get a hell of a deal, I doubt I'll be buying a hypo. Aneries are a mere curiosity and I have to guess that half the aneries are nothing more than washed out normals. When I saw my first BRB some 20 years ago, it was a pretty boring brown snake (by today's standards) with the most wicked iridescence I'd seen. Some of these "anery" animals look like those snakes. I understand the ghost goal, but I cant quite figure out why people are so keen on stripping the color out of a snake who's draw to me is the bright, sparkly colors. Probably not a popular opinion, but I'll own it.
-----
Julie

www.[url ban]/gfx

>> I understand the ghost goal, but I cant quite figure out why people are so keen on stripping the color out of a snake who's draw to me is the bright, sparkly colors. Probably not a popular opinion, but I'll own it.

That's funny, I was just about to write the same thing. I'm not against morphs per se, but I just don't understand the desire (aside from the tulip craze aspect) to propagate a genetic mutation regardless of what the end result looks like. I'm not criticizing anyone, I just don't understand that desire which results in people paying 4 figures for a snake.

And besides (and here's another probably unpopular opinion), there might be a naturally occurring "anery" rainbow boa you can get for $100-$150. Might not be possible to breed it to an orange/red E. cenchria, but for the cost savings it's worth a try!!

Thanks,
Ed

well i know i bought my aneries, as i knew i would get hypos in the future. I want to produce that Ghost, just for the fact, that i have seen the Ghost CRBs, and i think they look absolutely insane. Also if the amel brb ever does become available (sorry affordable i just cant imagine how cool a snow would look, irredescent white snake, mmmmm
-----
Dave

2.2 Normal BRBs
2.1 Anery BRB
4.4 66% poss het anery BRB
2.5 66% poss het new european line hypo
1.1 het hypo BRB

In the mail from the states
1.1 something special BRB

aims to work out what all my 66% hets really are, and then go from there. Sky the limit, well maybe

Dave,

Just to be clear, I wish you luck with your projects. Like I said to Dave C., as long as you take care of your snakes and represent them honestly, I have no right to criticize you. Your personal preferences (what looks nice, how you wish to spend your money, etc.) are your personal preferences, if that's what makes you happy, that's what's important! I just think anyone who is doing this as an "investment" is going to be disappointed.

It just occurred to me that I've spent 4 figures on individual shark teeth. Some people think I'm nuts for spending that much on a tooth!

Thanks,
Ed

>>well i know i bought my aneries, as i knew i would get hypos in the future. I want to produce that Ghost, just for the fact, that i have seen the Ghost CRBs, and i think they look absolutely insane. Also if the amel brb ever does become available (sorry affordable i just cant imagine how cool a snow would look, irredescent white snake, mmmmm
>>-----
>>Dave
>>
>>2.2 Normal BRBs
>>2.1 Anery BRB
>>4.4 66% poss het anery BRB
>>2.5 66% poss het new european line hypo
>>1.1 het hypo BRB
>>
>>In the mail from the states
>>1.1 something special BRB
>>
>>aims to work out what all my 66% hets really are, and then go from there. Sky the limit, well maybe

Julie,
...I noticed the same thing with boring colors in BRBs for sale 20 years ago. I knew there were prettier BRBs out there because I had seen them for many years before that. I think that when the boid market got hot in the mid to late 80s the best BRBs were being bought by the importers best customers before they were advertised to the rest of us. As people began breeding them in ever larger numbers in the late 80s the best CB ones were also being held back and the babies offered for sale were plain. I was getting to the end of my army career in the early 90s and was trying to build a collection of Boas to breed. Because of not being able to find the really pretty BRBs I wanted from breeders I bothered the importers on a weekly babsis in 1991 and 1992 to get some reaonably nice looking imports. In the time since then we have selectively bred for color so that most of them offered for sale today are much more colorful than the snakes that were generally available to the public in the late 80s and early 90s.
Jeff

>>I agree with Jeff, I like the pretty ones. I'll play with hypos using hets, but unless I get a hell of a deal, I doubt I'll be buying a hypo. Aneries are a mere curiosity and I have to guess that half the aneries are nothing more than washed out normals. When I saw my first BRB some 20 years ago, it was a pretty boring brown snake (by today's standards) with the most wicked iridescence I'd seen. Some of these "anery" animals look like those snakes. I understand the ghost goal, but I cant quite figure out why people are so keen on stripping the color out of a snake who's draw to me is the bright, sparkly colors. Probably not a popular opinion, but I'll own it.
>>-----
>>Julie
>>
>>www.[url ban]/gfx

Two things: One... some of us think aneries are GORGEOUS!! My Luna (Brian Sharp) and Cortez (Tom Chiang) are two of my 4 favorite snakes. They are just plain gorgeous!! I love the color on both of them! Cortez has a bit more of a Tawney look than Luna, who is a bit darker/blacker, but the cold colors with the bright iridescence is one of the coolest things I've ever seen. Also, of all the snakes I put up on my facebook account, the first one to get a comment was Luna! So I know I'm not alone! Had to say it... so :/~ to all of you that think that aneries are just a necessary, blah looking snake... I like em. Hrmph! Just kidding

Second... the original question. I think the only lines I "know" of are the Sharp, Seib, and Chiang aneries, but who knows what's out there. And yes, the Tom Chiang line was bred from 2 WC's for, I think, 3 generations now. I know my boy, Cortez, was bred by two half sibling hets. I also know Mike Lockwood has one that is a bit different in appearance, I saw a pic of him at anaheim, and he had grey inside his crescents, but definitely looked anery to his littermates. He said he got it unexpectedly from a male he didn't know had the anery gene with an anery female. I have no idea what line of anery that female was, but his male, therefore, had to be compatible with some preexisting line. If anyone knows who that is, or if Mike can tell me, that would be awesome! I hope that answers your questions.

I have taken some more recent pics of my two aneries, but I have posted them up here before. I'm not sure if you've seen them. I'll post them again for you. I also acquired a new camera, and in the event that I ever figure out how to use it... LOL... I will be taking lots of "good" pics of all my babies. I tried a minute ago to get a few good ones of them together, but I got NO cooperation from either of them... slithering off like crazies! Anyway, enough rambling, here's two pics of each:

Cortez (Tom Chiang Line)

Luna (Brian Sharp Line)

-----
7.22 BRB
10.20 BCI
1.1 Mandarin Rat Snakes
0.1 Kenyan Sand Boa
0.2 Corn Snakes
2.8 Leopard Geckos

Oh and Mike's anery is posted on his website, the anery female was from the Seib line.

http://www.tooscaley.com/reptiles/BrazilianRainbowBoas/images/collection/large/Cocoa-large.jpg
-----
7.22 BRB
10.20 BCI
1.1 Mandarin Rat Snakes
0.1 Kenyan Sand Boa
0.2 Corn Snakes
2.8 Leopard Geckos

aanata1~thanks for the pics, and your answers, pretty much what i was looking for, but somehow the conversation got onto to labradoodles and carpalls!!! Yeah my girl looks a lot like your cortez.

Natamjosh~ am i doing this as an investment, in some ways yes, i would not have so many snakes if not. But i put it in a sort of different way. I work in a bar, and a lot of the guys think its stupid what i have paid for snakes, we then sat down and worked out what they had spend on alcohol in the last year, scarily it was quite close between us what we had spent. I dont drink, and to me this is my hobby, i will get some money back from the snakes, they wont from alcohol also leaving in europe i do believe there is a good opportunity for a BRB breeder.
-----
Dave

2.2 Normal BRBs
2.1 Anery BRB
4.4 66% poss het anery BRB
2.5 66% poss het new european line hypo
1.1 het hypo BRB

In the mail from the states
1.1 something special BRB

aims to work out what all my 66% hets really are, and then go from there. Sky the limit, well maybe

Just don't forget to love it, that way if you don't make your investment back, you still did something that you really loved! I have to step back from time to time, when I'm cleaning and feeding for hours, and remind myself of the giant smile I get when one of my snakes is peeking out at me from under a rock or coil, just right.

Sorry, had to share.
-----
7.22 BRB
10.20 BCI
1.1 Mandarin Rat Snakes
0.1 Kenyan Sand Boa
0.2 Corn Snakes
2.8 Leopard Geckos

Anerythristic BRBs are varying shades of dark brown. Many normal BRBs have similar shades of brown coloration. That brown color looks like reduced red pigment rather than totally absent red pigment. Anyone who has seen a grey Argentinian Rainbow Boa has to wonder what it is that people see of interest in anerythristic BRBs.
Jeff

>>ok i understand the only properly proven lines are brians and robert seibs? How many other unrelated lines do there seem to be out there?? If if not fully proven. Im pretty sure i have one, tom chiang has one, also in previous post was talk on an anery but recently i got offered some anery babies from the US thru my exporter. Was from 2 wild caught parents, im told, and was 3rd year producing, is this toms line or? Anyone else get same offered? Would loved to have got some, but looking into new cages, and excess caging and less snakes seems better than the other way around!!
>>Also aanata1 any chance of new pics your little anery, i will post some later of mine hopefully, my girl seems to have had a little growth spurt lately and looking real nice.
>>-----
>>Dave
>>
>>2.2 Normal BRBs
>>2.1 Anery BRB
>>4.4 66% poss het anery BRB
>>2.5 66% poss het new european line hypo
>>1.1 het hypo BRB
>>
>>In the mail from the states
>>1.1 something special BRB
>>
>>aims to work out what all my 66% hets really are, and then go from there. Sky the limit, well maybe