Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've been following the thread below, and I couldn't help but give some comments.

First of all, I’m an indigo guy…so I admit my opinion may be slanted a bit…but I’ve worked with lots of kings as well.

In the summer, indigos venture into wetter, swampier terrain, so I’m sure confrontations with chain kings and FL kings are pretty frequent at least during the summer.

Here’s a few thoughts:

Put a 60” FL or eastern king head to head vs. a 60” indigo…and I think 9 times out of 10, the kingsnake makes a meal out of the indigo…hands down.

But…that would be like putting a 60lb. mature bobcat up against a 60lb Bengal tiger cub.

Take for example a male eastern indigo. It’s not even MATURE until it is 6’. That’s a HUGE kingsnake. An average mature adult eastern indigo…at 6.5 – 7’ ( and sometimes over 8’) up against your average common king….and now you have your match…your 60lb bobcat vs. your 400 lb tiger. Now it’s no contest in the opposite favor.

What that means…head to head in an average confrontation…chances are the indigo is going to be MUCH larger and more powerful than the king. They are just bigger snakes on average. MUCH bigger.

Hell…I KNOW kings are friggin’ powerful…no doubt. Put a 60” eastern king up against a 60” retic and the king would probably win. So…does that mean that kingsnakes are on average more powerful than reticulated pythons?

Here’s something that bugs me…a lot of folks have made comments like:

“indigos are not constrictors, they are thrasers”…therefore the assumption is that their only weapon is their strong jaws and would not be able to compete with the powerful constricting coils of a kingsnake.

All I can say is…the person who makes this claim is at least relatively unfamiliar with indigo snakes and the way they kill prey.

I’ve seen them kill. It is violent and they are AMAZINGLY powerful. Once per ounce, I really don’t believe there is a more powerful snake, constrictor or otherwise.

They do more than “thrash”…I believe they actually work on a cervical dislocation system with larger prey. They grab, crush with jaws…pin to the ground with very strong coils, and they STRETCH and PULL the animal as if trying to yank it in 2.

I’ve heard vertebrae separate and crack from the pressure as they pin and yank the head of large rats.

You are not talking about a giant garter snake here.

These snakes are the loony toones tazmanian devil of the snake world.

They are the “Greatest American Snake”

You ain’t NEVER gonna convince me otherwise.

Dean, couldn't agree with you more. Also, young indigos start out about four or five times as big as kings do when they are born. Though I have never seen that confrontation, I have seen indigos eating large yellowrat snakes which are constrictors and it posed know problem to them! I only knew of one locale area where both kings and indigos where found here in Hillsborough County, and the area supported giants of both species. If you match age for age, I think the indigo wins. Right now though, the fire ants and development is whipping both of them!!!

Dan P.

While I'll give ya against a full grown indigo a king wouldn't stand a chance I feel that equal size the king would simply crush it. You also have to factor in what king you are talking about as some seem stronger pound for pound than others but any king of equal size would crush it pretty easy.

And on the pound for pound indigo being the strongest while I agree they are pretty strong you must not have had an anaconda or papuan python constrict on ya. My money would have to go to one of those two in the pound for pound strength department.

Phil

heh heh after reading the post I see you are only talking north american stuff. Still same size I'll take the king.

Phil

Indigos eat kings. Eastern kings suck. I challenge any of you Eastern king lovers to put it in with my indigo. Regardless of it's size, my Indigo will be the new king . So please provide my indigo with a meal, because it saves me a couple bucks.

Terry
PS. F*** the mods

Last I checked Eastern Kings werent needing federal protection. I guess the Indigo's just dont eat them fast enough LOL. Maybe Getula is eating all those Indigo's and thats why they are few and far between. I will have to start scenting my pinks with Indigo maybe. Im just messing with you man I love Indigo's its a good BS debate much like The Hulk vs. Superman .

Keith

P.s. I had a "Dry Destroyer" last year but I regretably sold it. It was a close to 6 foot Georgia Eastern thats was still growing like a weed. Now John Hays has that bad boy and SoCal is too far of a drive for just an Indigo snack.

np

I'm just playin anyway man. Eastern Kings are pretty darn, but I am personally more partial to the Cali Kings. Maybe it has something to do with being a Californian? . BTW, you should check out the forums at www.f i e l d h e r p e r s.com minus the spaces of course.

Later,
Terry

No Joke Here: F*** THE MODS

I'm just playin anyway man. Eastern Kings are pretty darn cool, but I am personally more partial to the Cali Kings. Maybe it has something to do with being a Californian? . BTW, you should check out the forums at www.f i e l d h e r p e r s.com minus the spaces of course.

Later,
Terry

No Joke Here: F*** THE MODS

Its all good. These forums need a little laugh every now and then. I have checked out the Field Forums and its cool.

Keith

Hey Dean

Alright Eastern if feed well and have the right genetics (say some Georgia blood) can get between 6-7'. Its not they could more that they do and Ive seen them and I know people who own 6' plus Easterns. No Indigo could take a 7 foot Eastern or Floridana except maybe a 9 footer if there is one but then it would still be a good tussle. Your analogy is a little off as well a Bobcat VS a Bengal Tiger that comparison is too extreme size wise. Either way its just a fun debate that seems to spring up at least twice a year. I do think the debate should be settled over many beers with the Indigo Forum and the King forum. Yep that would give us a scientifically precise answer to the question of tastes great or less filling ? LOL.

Regards,

Keith

Well,

I guess a 7 foot getula would be pretty bad...but ...how many of those are around?

Yep I was exagerrating the analogy a bit...but I think it got the point across.

Just the same...yes it's just a friendly debate.

I like kingsnakes a lot...and I want you to hook me up with some of those awesome Jersey kings of yours.

Don't worry, I'll keep them away from my Drys. I don't want to traumatize the poor little guys!

LOL

Yep I will have to get you a pair of those NJ's next year. I bet once they arrive 10 or more hairs will spring forth from your chest. LOL

Regards

Keith

Lets focus on the eating styles of the two. Kings constrict and hold their pry until dead. Not so with the Eastern Indigo. Upon delivering the attack with the death chomp and shake, with a powerful lacerating bite the Indigo immediately starts eating its pry, alive or dead. There is no waiting, it’s going down the mouth.
By the time it takes this poor King snake to figure out what’s happening half of it is ingested.

Imagine the look on the kings face, as this powerful Black Devil snake is halfway done with its meal and the king snake thinks, what happen!…Dann

Ring Pythons!

For those who aren't aware....

They get about the same size as kings. However, I've never had a 4 foot snake give me a worse feeding-response bite EVER in my life. #1- Huge teeth (its a python). #2- He constricted my arm so hard that my hand turned purple and felt like it was going to fall off. #3- It took two people to help get unwrap it.

I've held big, lean kings and I've held big, lean indigos but NO snake I've ever seen has the muscle tone and absolute power of a ring python. They hit like a ton of bricks.

One of my friend's rings got out once. It happened to knock over a rubbermaid with a cal king about a foot longer than itself. Next morning, there was no cal king, just a really big lump in the ring. Miraculously, it didn't regurge. The king was about 4.5 feet, the ring about 3.5.

Van

n/p

n/p

np

You should all consider another thing. When they are both the same size, there will be quite a bit of tail sticking out. And in most cases, either they have to regurge, and lose the meal, or die. So there would be no real victor. But if one was a good deal bigger, then yes, then it would also be unfair. Besides, all herps are neat o, and every species deserves our respect. After all, they have survived with little or no evolving. Herps rule

Dan

It's funny that this conversation seems to resurface on one of these two forums every year or so.

Don't forget, an average adult King Cobra could eat an adult indigo and finish its meal with a getula chaser.
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Chris Harrison

one should remember that the average King cobra uses venom......Cheating is against the rules...Lets try that trick with a venmoid......Chomp?
Frank

I like easterns of both kings & indigos. But remember a snake that isn't hungry will not usually defend itself that's why rats eat them when unknowing beginners try to feed the snake. I personally like the constricting style of L.G.G but The slam & snap style is just as good if not better at killing rodents. I've never seen drys. eat another snake but the kings. I've seen never really constricted just held the other snake in its' coils & swallowed it alive. On a side note I did see a hungry baby black racer go at it w/ a hungry baby cali. king, the racer was losing the struggle before they were seperated. this racer had previously eaten an Elaphe guttata as it's owner didn't know racers were ophiophagus.

What do young Indigos look like? A friend of mine swears he saw one the othe day near Crawfordville, FL. He said it was crossing the road and it was about 2 feet long and fat as hell. It was alot shinier than any Black Racer he'd ever seen and the size made him wonder. But it was jet black and almost looked purple to him. Do you guys think it was an Indigo?