Reptile & Amphibian Forums

First off I want to say I am fairly new here and the Pituophis family is my favorite family of snakes. I just picked up a pair of 08 Deppei Deppei. They are housed seperately in a container slightly larger than a shoe box. My question is what is the ideal temperature range for them? My snake room is around 84 degrees and humidity around 50%. I feel this is to warm for them or any of my pits. The snakes have been in this setup since June with no problems but worried its not ideal for them. What does everyone think.
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1.2 Black Pines
2.2 Northern Pines
1.2 Kankakee County Bullsnakes
1.1 Northern x Southern Pinesnakes
1.1 Deppei Deppei
1.1 Cornsnkes

well, I may get the boot for this but I say if they are OK then they are OK. I bet if you went around the room and top to bottom you would certainly find a temp gradient and where you have them may be suiting their needs. I am usually one to say that a constant 84 degrees F is probably too warm for a pit collection, but if it is working for you that's great. conventional wisdom is that montane species prefer cooler temps, are fussier starters and grow slower. keep the meals moderately sized (small), relatively frequent (5-10 days) and just keep an eye on things.
post some pictures of your animals when time allows.

daveb

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in the light, you will find the road...

Congrats on the new snakes. I don't have a lot of pit experience. I just got two pairs of '08's in Daytona. But before the only pits I kept was a pair of Northern Pines. But I kept them from the time I got them as hatchlings to full adults in a garage in Central Florida. It got in the high 80's at times in there (it was shaded by trees so it did stay cooler than it would have if it wasn't)and they did fine. They even bred for me, laying clutches of 100% fertile eggs that went full term. I kept all my snakes the same way and they always did fine. I have my new bulls inside the house in a rack system with a heat tape. But when they get larger I'll move them out to my garage (different than one I kept the Northerns in). Mike

Ok, great topic. I just got off the phone with Billy and we had a long conversation regarding this very subject.."temperatures" and deppei.

A few years ago researchers started to use a device called a data-logger. It is similar to the early telemetry devices but is capable of sending movement and temperature information back to a source. In other words it tells a researcher if his or her snake, lizard, crocodilian, or tortoise is moving or still (and for how long) and it also tells the researcher what the body temp of the animal is at any given moment over the coarse of the battery life for that unit. What they found out is that reptiles very actively regulate their body temps to specific ranges....optimal ranges! They also fine tune their temperatures to facilitate specific needs such as digestion of a large meal, fighting off infections from an injury, or fighting off a gastrointestinal pathogen or parasite.

How can keepers use this information to enhance the health of their collections? You may have (probably do have) a temperature gradient throughout your collection room, that temp may change over the course of a day and over the course of a season however the animals are going to be at a constant temp at any one given moment or at best a one or two degree temp difference if your enclosures are huge. How likely is it that you are going to happen to keep your room at a snake's optimal temp? What about differing needs of different localities, different species? what about opportunities for a snake to get warmer if it feels sick or needs to boost a big meal along? Think of the snake's metabolism as a set of ongoing biochemical reactions. Chemical reactions work best at optimal temperatures!

Lots of keepers including myself have kept or keep animals under less than optimal conditions and quite frankly had little or no issue. I think that this speaks to the hardiness of the animals.

What the research shows or eludes to is that these guys need and can benefit from the presence of a thermo-gradient. The wider the gradient the better opportunity the animal has to place itself in the optimal temp zone. If you offer this gradient you will start to see overall health improvements. Babies start better, big meals no longer end in regurge nightmares, sheds are healthier, feeding responses are improved, less visits to the vet for anti-biotic treatments..........etc! P.d.deppei once thought to be difficult become easy!

Keep your room's ambient temp as cool as you can afford to, I like 75F (I would prefer 72 or 73 but the A/C bill would kill me!) with a hot area in one corner. My heat tapes are set on 95F and give surface temps in the enclosure near the upper 80's. I have the tapes come on for 2-3 hours in the morning (simulating sunrise and midmorning surface temps) and on for 3-4 hours in the late afternoon.

In doing this you allow the snake to keep it's body temp where it needs to be, and the snake in the next cage over can keep his or her temp right were it wants to by crawling on and off the different zones.....thermo-regulating!

When you set up a temp gradient make sure that the animals have full control to get in and out of hot zones completely, watch their behaviors and note changes. For particularly secretive animals put multiple hides in the enclosure i.e. in cool areas and "hot" areas.

As noted, we have all kept snake in less than optimal conditions and gotten away with it but trust me you will be rewarded if you take the steps to set up thermo-gradients to the best of your abilities.

When using heat tapes or other heating elements make sure you use them according to manufacture's specifications and that you monitor temperatures within your enclosures.