Reptile & Amphibian Forums

First it's good to be back. In short my BP was up a bit. first time ever. I had an extreme reaction to my mild meds that had no side effects! lol

A stay in ICU. Long story sort my BP was at 70/40 standing and they think it was as low as 60/30 when I was out takign pictures of my daughters volleyball game. Tons of tests for heart damage and a cat scan to check for brain damage. I may be the only one in here that is certified as having no brain damage! But, they were shocked on how fast I rebounded. so I'm still alive and kicking.

So, for cleaning!!!! I generally use dish soap and on those special cleans,, beach. Then a bit of dish soap and rinse very well. I'm not going to post my views yet, but I'd like to see what most use. Bleach seems to pop up at times as being bad? In the past to clean large wood items I've used "pool shock". It's a slightly different chemical compound of chlorine but is HIGHLY concentrated over the 5% bottle stuff. Those projects get a long airing out.

So, do you use bleach?
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

First and foremost Tom,....I hope you get your health back, and your BP back on an even keel and are able to be problem free in the future! .

As for bleach,...it is totally harmless, but it MUST be THOROUGHLY RINSED AND DRIED. All too often the burning problems associated with it are blamed on the bleach, when in fact the user did NOT thoroughly rinse and dry the cage, bowl, and/or cage furniture. If it is impractical for this to be done correctly, it is MUCH wiser to simply use warm soapy water.

Hope you stay well buddy!

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

I have never seen why it should be an issue? Especially in aquaria. They have far better ventilation than a rack. but even so, a heavy rinse with a brush and a little airing out.

Now porous materials I let sit for a spell, as they need to dry and have the chlorine evaporate.

And thanks for the kind words.
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

for dishes......

full sink with rinsed out dirty water bowls,cork,hides,etc
fill sink tub ad ALOT of dish soap....soak all night usually at least hoursss
empty, repeat
empty, sometimes repeat
empty,slight rinse ,fill and add bleach, couple few cups of it...set all night again...
empty rinse slight fill and add dish soap again
usually a rinse fill
empty and rinse and hand check and wipe and all under running warm/hot water....
air dry on towel.......

takes like 3 -5 days to do dishes......

I rinse well and let stand around.......usually a few days......so bleach smell goes away
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OH....tubs.......

hot water and dish soap or
just hot water even
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That's a lot. Now that you posted that, I was thinking I prolly clean my herp tubs and bowls a lot more thoroughly than my personal dishes. And for the record I don't do dishes lol. But not unlike me to grab a dirty dish and wash it quick to use for a quick meal.

Can you really smell the bleach on hard plastic items after a day? My wife uses so much bleach in the house it is crazy. And I think I have a pretty good nose for it? But maybe it's burnt out?
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

Tom I use to have BP problems when I was younger although it was more from the meds my Dr thought i needed to take for high BP... so I understand about the BP problems.... Welcome Back !!!!!
I use bleach biluted in about a 10 parts water to 1 part bleach ratio.

Tom

All bleach is is a Very concentrated base that is corrosive. So yes, bleach is dangerous, but I do use it to clean out my enclosures. What is important to remember that any acid or base is less corrosive if it is diluted... SO RINSE IT THOROUGHLY!! The pH will go back down even if you don't get rid of every little bit of it. But I still would rinse until I couldn't smell it anymore... just to be polite!!
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7.22 BRB
10.20 BCI
1.1 Mandarin Rat Snakes
0.1 Kenyan Sand Boa
0.2 Corn Snakes
2.8 Leopard Geckos

Bleach is good, as long as you scrub with a rag, not just spray it around.
Bleach is rendered ineffective in the presence of organic matter, so you must remove all organic matter first, before you scrub with bleach, otherwise you can end up spreading it around.
Most people use too much bleach anyway. I have had quite a bit of for-real chemical training, and if you use bleach stronger than, say 200 ppm, or so, it's just too strong to do it's job effectively. It also needs more contact time that most people think to do it's job.
I prefer quat, as in quatenary ammonia, a common quat is benzyl ammonium chloride and it's various salts.
This is the main ingredient in scrubbing bubbles.
It also is much less corrosive to flesh and much less likely to irritate lung tissue, although it still is wise to rinse it off.

Don't ever, ever use lysol to sanitize a snakes' enclosure.
That's just common sense.

Another great one to use is chlorhexidine, it's expensive, and doesn't keep very long, but it's a great agent to use for cleaning and sterilizing cage furniture.

Just because it smells like bleach, that doesn't mean it's stronger than something that smells weaker.

Let me explain.
When them make bleach, they bubble chlorine gas through water, but they adjust the ph of the water to around 8.0, from a neutral 7.
They do this because chlorine gas is released from any solution that is more acidic then a ph of 8.
Therefore, if you add the tablet to straight water, it will release the chlorine gas from the solution until the other chemicals in the tablet adjust the ph to a proper level, or the chlorine does it for you.
This is why you can't mix bleach with acids, because the acid will lower the ph of the liquid to below 8, and the solution will begin releasing gas.
The released chlorine gas is not only very irritating, but also deadly in high enough concentrations. Bleach is also very corrosive to metals, and anything organic.
Does that make any sense?

Try 90% household vinegar, 5% lemon juice, 5% mild dish soap made from vegetable products (visit nearest health store).
Been using this almost 20 years. Safe, non-toxic.

The cleaning products sold for cages are not natural.

Mike

http://www.scjohnson.com/msds_us_ca/PDFs/126607006_Scrubbing_Bubbles_XXI_Bathroom_Cleaner_Lemon.PDF

http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/S4106.htm

2 MSDS sheets, compare bleach vs. scrubbing bubbles for yourself.

Permissable exposure level:
Bleach .5 to 1 PPM.
Scrubbing bubbles, no limit set, no inhalation hazards present.

That alone should tell you which is better for your pets.
I should also point out that the main ingredient in scrubbing bubbles is 'quat' which is used in the foodservice industry, and does a fine job on killing bacti, viruses and dissolving organic matter.
Decide your yourself.

What's really funny is the required PPE mandated for use in a lab when handling bleach: GOGGLES & SHIELD; LAB COAT & APRON; VENT HOOD; PROPER GLOVES. Nobody would seriously require all that for scrubbing bubbles.

The downside of quats is that it's ineffective against spores and Gram negative bacteria, so it's not as broad-spectrum as bleach, and it requires a bit longer contact time.

(Ripped from wikipedia.)

The proteobacteria are a major group of Gram-negative bacteria, including Escherichia coli, Salmonella, and other Enterobacteriaceae, Pseudomonas, Moraxella, Helicobacter, Stenotrophomonas, Bdellovibrio, acetic acid bacteria, Legionella and alpha-proteobacteria as Wolbachia and many others. Other notable groups of Gram-negative bacteria include the cyanobacteria, spirochaetes, green sulfur and green non-sulfur bacteria.

Medically relevant Gram-negative cocci include three organisms, which cause a sexually transmitted disease (Neisseria gonorrhoeae), a meningitis (Neisseria meningitidis), and respiratory symptoms (Moraxella catarrhalis).

Medically relevant Gram-negative bacilli include a multitude of species. Some of them primarily cause respiratory problems (Hemophilus influenzae, Klebsiella pneumoniae, Legionella pneumophila, Pseudomonas aeruginosa), primarily urinary problems (Escherichia coli, Proteus mirabilis, Enterobacter cloacae, Serratia marcescens), and primarily gastrointestinal problems (Helicobacter pylori, Salmonella enteritidis, Salmonella typhi).

(Ripped from wikipedia.)

So, bleach is much more broad spectrum than scrubbing bubbles, and if you note any health problems or anything unusual you should switch to bleach again.
I should also note that hot, soapy water wouldn't protect against any of those bacti, either.
This again underscores the fact that you shouldn't be cleaning reptile equipment in food prep locations, no matter the mode of sanitation you use.

The use of a agent like quats is immensely preferable to hot soapy water, on routine cleaning, but I'd still recommend a good bleach scrub every now and then, no matter what your views on it. It works, and I've yet to meet the bacti, yeast, mold, viruses or fungi that would develop an immunity to it.

to both bleach, quats, and almost every other agent tested, except strong solutions of hydrogen peroxide, so rotating your sanitizing agent weekly or monthly is still a wise precaution.
This pest has been around a while, and is responsible for some cases of horrible diarrhea. It's immune to many good sanitizers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptosporidium_parvum