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kinky babies...

teaspoon Sep 14, 2008 02:39 PM

clutch laid on july 5 from two normals who had never befor bred to my knowledge. There were 14 total(nine fertile and five infertile). Two are bigger than the rest and one is half the size of the normal eggs. I've been incubating them for a friend who has no incubator. The room is usually 80ish degrees so I just put them in my snake room. They started hatching yesterday after seventy someodd days. It never got above the upper 80s F or below lower 70s F, usually about 80. Three have come all of the way out so far, and two have kinks(one has about eight kinks, and the other over 12). The other baby looks fine. They all appear healthy otherwise. I don't have pics, sorry, no camera. I'm trying to figure out why there are already two kinky snakes out of the three that have hatched so far. They came from normal sized eggs. I think that the parents were related, but I'd have to check with the owner on that. I know that the parents came from the same breeder. Any ideas? I don't think that I did anything wrong with incubation, I hope I didn't!
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www.freewebs.com/snakesandstuff
"Let us step out into the night and pursue that mighty temptress, adventure." (Albus Dumbledore)

My menagerie
2.2 Ball Pythons (and 5 eggs!) 1.1 Amazon Tree Boas 1.0 Corn Snake (and 9 eggs) 0.0.4 Black Rat Snakes 1.0 Dumeril's Boa 2.1.10 Bearded Dragons 2.1.4 Crested Geckos (and 2 eggs!) 1.1.4 Eastern Box Turtles (eggs?) 0.3 Chickens 2.1 Cats 1.1 Ferrets plus lots of mice and feeder insects

Replies (12)

teaspoon Sep 14, 2008 02:53 PM

I just read a post furture down that said that most kinks are from wrong incubation, well don't I feel horrible. I had heard that fluctuations in temp can be beneficial to eggs( I don't know how) and I just hatched three black rat snakes the same way as the corns and they all turned out perfect. I don't know what to think, except that maybe the parents were probably related.
Hmm...
Some one should post something so that I'm not the only person responding to my own post...
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www.freewebs.com/snakesandstuff
"Let us step out into the night and pursue that mighty temptress, adventure." (Albus Dumbledore)

My menagerie
2.2 Ball Pythons (and 5 eggs!) 1.1 Amazon Tree Boas 1.0 Corn Snake (and 9 eggs) 0.0.4 Black Rat Snakes 1.0 Dumeril's Boa 2.1.10 Bearded Dragons 2.1.4 Crested Geckos (and 2 eggs!) 1.1.4 Eastern Box Turtles (eggs?) 0.3 Chickens 2.1 Cats 1.1 Ferrets plus lots of mice and feeder insects

STEVES_KIKI Sep 14, 2008 05:31 PM

dont be so hard on yourself... pretty much any temps over 85 are in the danger zone for corns... they can get really really kinked(like you found out) which is only bad if you planned on selling the babies... not many people are willing to BUY kinked babies... most are freebies or killed.... personally i cant kill snakes.... i have a few kinked snakes as pets only... and never to be used for breeding purposes...
~kin
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~Sober Serpents~
www.freewebs.com/soberserpents
Corns, Creamsicles, A Black Rat, A pair of Leucistic Black Rat X Leucistic Texas Rat Intergrades, Thayeri, Cal Kings, A Jungle Corn, Ball Pythons, A reverse Trio of Candoia, Leopard Geckos, Green Anoles, a Snapping Turtle, a White Cheeked Mud Turtle, a Bearded Dragon, an Adult Rescue Iguana, and A Baby Iguana

teaspoon Sep 15, 2008 05:52 PM

Now seven have hatched, four of which are kinky. I never thought that I'd be unhappy to have eggs hatch. The corn snake book that I have said that up to 90 was safe as long as it was not prolonged. Out of the two other eggs(the biggest egg and the half size egg), the biggest is pipped and the half size egg was dead in the egg. His head was misshaped and the yolk was rotten and smelly, and the eyes were not fully developed, so that was probably just because he was in a egg that was two sizes too small.
On the happy side(if you can find one) the breeder(an 11 year old) is thrilled that his first eggs hatched from his first breeding of his first breeding pair. I told him that the babies ought to be fine, even to kinky ones, so long as they eat. I suggested that he don't breed the babies. He wasn't too concerned at all. He wasn't even planning on selling them, just giving them away, the parent snakes are both normals, as are the babies.
I have Dr. Mader's book, Reptile Medicine and Surgery, and it said that deformed babies come from inbreeding and inproper humidity and temperatures during incubation. Either way, I feel rotten, I just hope that the last baby hatches out healthy so there can be atleast 50% healthy babies.
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www.freewebs.com/snakesandstuff
"Let us step out into the night and pursue that mighty temptress, adventure." (Albus Dumbledore)

My menagerie
2.2 Ball Pythons (and 5 eggs!) 1.1 Amazon Tree Boas 1.0 Corn Snake (and 9 eggs) 0.0.4 Black Rat Snakes 1.0 Dumeril's Boa 2.1.10 Bearded Dragons 2.1.4 Crested Geckos (and 2 eggs!) 1.1.4 Eastern Box Turtles (eggs?) 0.3 Chickens 2.1 Cats 1.1 Ferrets plus lots of mice and feeder insects

teaspoon Sep 15, 2008 06:11 PM

nevermind, make that five out of seven are kinky.(but the one's kinks arn't as bad as the rest.

Here's another one for you to figure out. I had three black rat snakes hatch out a couple weeks ago after about 45 days incubation, incubated the same way as the corn snake eggs. They were all doing perfectly until yesterday, one bent his neck at a right angle and it stuck there...
Here I am, responding to my own post for the third time...
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www.freewebs.com/snakesandstuff
"Let us step out into the night and pursue that mighty temptress, adventure." (Albus Dumbledore)

My menagerie
2.2 Ball Pythons (and 5 eggs!) 1.1 Amazon Tree Boas 1.0 Corn Snake (and 9 eggs) 0.0.4 Black Rat Snakes 1.0 Dumeril's Boa 2.1.10 Bearded Dragons 2.1.4 Crested Geckos (and 2 eggs!) 1.1.4 Eastern Box Turtles (eggs?) 0.3 Chickens 2.1 Cats 1.1 Ferrets plus lots of mice and feeder insects

Paul Hollander Sep 16, 2008 09:37 AM

My incubator is set to 90 F during the day. At night the power goes off, and the temperature drops into the 70s. I have hatched corn snakes, bullsnakes, and fox snakes and hardly ever gotten a kinked baby. So I do not think that temperature is a big factor in kinking.

As far as I know, nobody has a solid explanation for congenital kinking. It's all guesswork.

Paul Hollander

teaspoon Sep 16, 2008 02:00 PM

that's a relief, I was almost sure that it was my fault. The parents must have been relateed. Five out of seven is a lot though. I did offer to take any kinky babies that he could not find homes for.
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www.freewebs.com/snakesandstuff
"Let us step out into the night and pursue that mighty temptress, adventure." (Albus Dumbledore)

My menagerie
2.2 Ball Pythons (and 5 eggs!) 1.1 Amazon Tree Boas 1.0 Corn Snake (and 9 eggs) 0.0.4 Black Rat Snakes 1.0 Dumeril's Boa 2.1.10 Bearded Dragons 2.1.4 Crested Geckos (and 2 eggs!) 1.1.4 Eastern Box Turtles (eggs?) 0.3 Chickens 2.1 Cats 1.1 Ferrets plus lots of mice and feeder insects

STEVES_KIKI Sep 16, 2008 05:11 PM

related snakes do not always throw a majority of kinked babies.... thats how most morphs are made.... I bred 2 siblings to each other this year and got 0 kinks... i also bred a mother to her son and got no kinks. so its not just inbreeding...
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~Sober Serpents~
www.freewebs.com/soberserpents
Corns, Creamsicles, A Black Rat, A pair of Leucistic Black Rat X Leucistic Texas Rat Intergrades, Thayeri, Cal Kings, A Jungle Corn, Ball Pythons, A reverse Trio of Candoia, Leopard Geckos, Green Anoles, a Snapping Turtle, a White Cheeked Mud Turtle, a Bearded Dragon, an Adult Rescue Iguana, and A Baby Iguana

Paul Hollander Sep 16, 2008 06:10 PM

Five infertile eggs out of 14. That's over a third of the clutch.

Among other things, vitamin deficiencies in the mother can cause congenital deformities and more infertile eggs. That is something I'd like to see tested.

Paul Hollander

STEVES_KIKI Sep 16, 2008 06:57 PM

do we know how old the parent snakes are? sounds like calcium and vitamin problems.... and i see alot of infertile eggs, dead in eggs, etc from older snakes... if the snakes are fairly old that might be a reason why the babies are kinked and dead
~kin
-----
~Sober Serpents~
www.freewebs.com/soberserpents
Corns, Creamsicles, A Black Rat, A pair of Leucistic Black Rat X Leucistic Texas Rat Intergrades, Thayeri, Cal Kings, A Jungle Corn, Ball Pythons, Leopard Geckos, Green Anoles, 2 Snapping Turtles, a White Cheeked Mud Turtle, an Eastern Box Turtle, a Bearded Dragon, an Adult Rescue Iguana, and A Baby Iguana

draybar Sep 17, 2008 04:18 PM

>>Thoughts

I think too much moisture is a big factor in kinking and eggs not making it to full term.
I spoke about this a while back but I think it is a very high likelyhood.
I've had kinked babies and eggs not quite make it all the way to full term but when I went to much dryer conditions there were absolutely no kinks and my hatch rate was over 95%
and these were the same breeding pairs every day conditions remained the same, feeding remained the same and brumation was done the same.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

teaspoon Sep 17, 2008 06:21 PM

as far as i know, the parents were young and fed on mice. I'm sure that all the kinks were from a whole lot of factors now, I'll be sure to do less humidity next time though. Thanks everyboby, hatching these snakes was alost more stress than it was worth.
-----
www.freewebs.com/snakesandstuff
"Let us step out into the night and pursue that mighty temptress, adventure." (Albus Dumbledore)

My menagerie
2.2 Ball Pythons (and 5 eggs!) 1.1 Amazon Tree Boas 1.0.1 Corn Snake 0.0.4 Black Rat Snakes 1.0 Dumeril's Boa 2.1.10 Bearded Dragons 2.1.4 Crested Geckos (and 2 eggs!) 1.1.4 Eastern Box Turtles (eggs?) 0.3 Chickens 2.1 Cats 1.1 Ferrets plus lots of mice and feeder insects

draybar Sep 17, 2008 06:55 PM

>>as far as i know, the parents were young and fed on mice. I'm sure that all the kinks were from a whole lot of factors now, I'll be sure to do less humidity next time though. Thanks everyboby, hatching these snakes was alost more stress than it was worth.
>>-----

don't worry
it will get better.
There are many factors to deal with but you will get the hang of it. and love it...lol

-----
Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

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