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Filter recomendations

MMathis Sep 16, 2008 09:02 AM

WINTER, INDOOR BOXIE HABITAT:
I will be bringing my babies in soon. Last winter I set up a "pond" at the far end of my 36"x18" tank. I prefer to filter the water and change when needed rather than mess with a water bowl, so this year, the "pond" will be a plexiglassed-in, permanent feature. Last year I started out with a Zoo Med 501 canister filter which more or less worked: it worked fine, but didn't have the capacity to handle all the poop! This year, looking for a different, more efficient (larger?) filter system that will, of course, work in just a few inches of water.

I was looking at something like the H.O.T. canister, or something along those lines (an outside rather than submersible), but worry whether the outflow would be too strong. Does anyone have suggestions or comments?

Replies (6)

curtis9980 Sep 16, 2008 11:22 AM

You didn't say how big the actual pond area would be, so it's hard for me to gauge how much flow it would need. I think this is tricky for a couple of reasons if your pond is less than, say, 20 gallons. One, like you mentioned, most filters are not going to be able to keep up with the amount of waste, b/c as we know, boxies love to let loose when soaking. So if you don't have a large body of water for the waste to break up, so to speak, before it goes into the filter, you're going to have a mess. Second, the flow issue. I wouldn't want something with a strong flow, but then again, it probably wouldn't hurt. I've seen turtles soaking in streams that were moving pretty fast.

So, without knowing the size of the pond, I would recommend you find an external canister filter whose GPH (gallons per hour) matches up with the size of your pond. Also, you can always lessen the rate of return through valves and such. I would also make sure the filter has at least three stages, meaning three compartments. In the first compartment the water goes through I would stuff it with a prefilter material to skim off large chunks of waste. And then in the other two compartments I would run carbon.

boxienuts Sep 17, 2008 12:57 AM

Well I will probably be out on a limb here as usual, and this probably isn't the comment or suggestion that you were looking for but why don't you make it easy on yourself and easy on the turtles and put them in a large plastic tub with a few air holes, with a moist substrate, let them burrow down, keep them cool in a basement or garage, or mini fridge, but not freezing, check the moisture monthly, add some water if nessasary, and take a break, let the turtles take a break and be very happy to see each other again in the spring.
If you do chose to try to keep them active and healthy indoors all winter, even the latest greatest high tech filtration, will not maintain as good of water quality as changing the water in a water dish or bowl daily along with regular weekly cleaning of the bowl/dish by scrubbing with a spong with antibacterial hand soap, (can also be followed with a 10% bleach solution soaking, though I feel that bleach is usually not nessasary or warranted unless there is a known really nasty pathogen or parasite present), followed by thorough, thorough triple rinsing.
If you choose to use a canister filter or any filter, no matter how many stages; biological filtration (the nitrogen cycling bacteria) is still the most important function. Maintaining a balanced, established bacterial load via contistant regular partial water changes is the key to maintaining water quality, not how much the filter cost or the flow (GPH) because water will only hold so much dissolved oxygen and that is inversely related to temperature and the bacteria can only utilize so much dissolved oxygen to redox ammonia and that is temp. dependent. And while carbon makes the water look pretty for a while it will be difficult to keep up in a small volume pond with the organics load of turtle turds.
There really is not any substitute for elbow grease and/or water changes. If you are looking for practicality for the health of you turtles I would go with a water dish/bowl and keep it clean, however if you are looking for aesthetically pleasing to your eye, by all means go with the small pond with the outside the tank canister filter, I'm sure it will look lovely and the sound of moving water is always nice to listen to, but make sure to get the bacteria established first and then do your water changes consistantly and regularly. This should give you some things to think about.
Sorry so long, but I have many, many years experience with water quality and I think it is a terribly important subject with regards to fish, amphibian, and reptile health and is often way under-emphasized.
-----
Jeff Benfer
1.0 cinnamon pastel Python regius
1.0 pastel Python regius
1.1 mojave Python regius
0.1 normal Python regius
1.3 Terrapene carolina thriunguis
2.3 Terrapene carolina carolina
4.1 Kinosternon baurii
1.1 Malaclemys terrapin terrapin
2.2 double het albino and anerythristicThamnophis sirtalis parietalis
1.0 anerythristic Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis
2.3 Iowa snow Thamnophis radix
0.2 het Christmas albino Thamnophis radix
1.1 double het cherry erythristic, albino Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
1.1 melanistic Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
2.0 66% het snow Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
1.1 triple heterozygous for amelanistic,carmel, and stripe Pantherophis guttatus
0.1 anerythristic motley Pantherophis guttatus
0.1 butter p.h. stripe Pantherophis guttatus
0.1 carmel stripe p.h. amel Pantherophis guttatus
0.1 amelanistic p.h. carmel,stripe Pantherophis guttatus

curtis9980 Sep 17, 2008 08:51 PM

"If you choose to use a canister filter or any filter, no matter how many stages; biological filtration (the nitrogen cycling bacteria) is still the most important function. Maintaining a balanced, established bacterial load via contistant regular partial water changes is the key to maintaining water quality, not how much the filter cost or the flow (GPH) because water will only hold so much dissolved oxygen and that is inversely related to temperature and the bacteria can only utilize so much dissolved oxygen to redox ammonia and that is temp. dependent. And while carbon makes the water look pretty for a while it will be difficult to keep up in a small volume pond with the organics load of turtle turds."

Jeff,

While all of what you said has truth to it, I think there's a misapplication in your thought process. There's a big difference, I think, in determining how well one's water quality is for a fish aquarium, water turtle setup or koi or plant pond as oppossed to a simple pond for box turtles.

What you listed about biological filtration and such is absolutely, spot on, true if keeping fish or water turtles. But seeing as this is for box turtles, I think my answers to him were based purely on the facts of what he said he had and wanted and the fact that I was concentrating on keeping the water "filtered," as in clean, not as in well-balanced, in the common sense for fish. Don't get me wrong, what you list is all very, very true. But I just think it's a little too much to worry about for a box turtle that does not rely on water for anything else than to drink and soak in.

To your point about water flow, my comments weren't based on how much oxygen the water could hold, etc., but rather that a proper flow, not to torrent and not too weak, would be best for the filtering off of large debris for his sized application. Also, rest assurd, carbon does a lot more than make water "look pretty." It's a fantastic purifier, can remove chemicals, metals, and other harmful contaiminents that common water testing can't account for or answer. I don't mean to say all this to start a fight, I just felt you might have been overthinking things a bit for this guy's situation. Having worked in the aquarium trade and serviced and maintained systems from freshwater to saltwater to ponds to reefs for six years, I know my stuff too.

And by the way, I completely agree, MMathis, it's far easier and efficient to just keep a large dish or pool of water and do routine water changes.

Jeff, here's a pic of my saltwater, as a peace offering.

boxienuts Sep 19, 2008 01:44 PM

"and the fact that I was concentrating on keeping the water "filtered," as in clean, not as in well-balanced, in the common sense for fish. Don't get me wrong, what you list is all very, very true. But I just think it's a little too much to worry about for a box turtle that does not rely on water for anything else than to drink and soak in."

OK,
So when the water gets pooped in and then a few days later the ammonia spikes and then the nitrite spikes do you think that will be healthy or even "OK" for the box turtles to drink?

Just because water "looks clean" and doesn't have any turds floating around in it does not mean it isn't toxic. Water with aglae and detritis floating around "looks dirty" to the casual observer but actualy can be very "balance", "healthy", and truely "clean". Water 101
This applies not only to fish that breath in the water but also to all reptiles and amphibians that soak,soil,and drink in there water as well.
Go take a crap in your toilet, don't flush, hook up your brand new canister filter with brand new carbon, then come back in a couple days when the water "looks" polished sparkling "clean", fill up your glass and have a big drink, see how you like it?
-----
Jeff Benfer
1.0 cinnamon pastel Python regius
1.1 pastel Python regius
1.1 mojave Python regius
0.3 normal Python regius
1.3 Terrapene carolina thriunguis
2.3 Terrapene carolina carolina
4.1 Kinosternon baurii
1.1 Malaclemys terrapin terrapin
2.2 double het albino and anerythristicThamnophis sirtalis parietalis
1.0 anerythristic Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis
2.3 Iowa snow Thamnophis radix
0.2 het Christmas albino Thamnophis radix
1.1 double het cherry erythristic, albino Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
1.1 melanistic Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
2.0 66% het snow Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
1.1 triple heterozygous for amelanistic,carmel, and stripe Pantherophis guttatus
0.1 anerythristic motley Pantherophis guttatus
0.1 butter p.h. stripe Pantherophis guttatus
0.1 carmel stripe p.h. amel Pantherophis guttatus
0.1 amelanistic p.h. carmel,stripe Pantherophis guttatus

patsy1 Sep 20, 2008 01:09 AM

that was fun to read. You just made me smile. I love the part when you use the word soil, amidst all the crap, turds etc. sorry, not to sound to cheeky, but I have had a real "crappy" day and it was fun to read is all.../p

>>"and the fact that I was concentrating on keeping the water "filtered," as in clean, not as in well-balanced, in the common sense for fish. Don't get me wrong, what you list is all very, very true. But I just think it's a little too much to worry about for a box turtle that does not rely on water for anything else than to drink and soak in."
>>
>>
>>OK,
>>So when the water gets pooped in and then a few days later the ammonia spikes and then the nitrite spikes do you think that will be healthy or even "OK" for the box turtles to drink?
>>
>>Just because water "looks clean" and doesn't have any turds floating around in it does not mean it isn't toxic. Water with aglae and detritis floating around "looks dirty" to the casual observer but actualy can be very "balance", "healthy", and truely "clean". Water 101
>>This applies not only to fish that breath in the water but also to all reptiles and amphibians that soak,soil,and drink in there water as well.
>>Go take a crap in your toilet, don't flush, hook up your brand new canister filter with brand new carbon, then come back in a couple days when the water "looks" polished sparkling "clean", fill up your glass and have a big drink, see how you like it?
>>-----
>>Jeff Benfer
>>1.0 cinnamon pastel Python regius
>>1.1 pastel Python regius
>>1.1 mojave Python regius
>>0.3 normal Python regius
>>1.3 Terrapene carolina thriunguis
>>2.3 Terrapene carolina carolina
>>4.1 Kinosternon baurii
>>1.1 Malaclemys terrapin terrapin
>>2.2 double het albino and anerythristicThamnophis sirtalis parietalis
>>1.0 anerythristic Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis
>>2.3 Iowa snow Thamnophis radix
>>0.2 het Christmas albino Thamnophis radix
>>1.1 double het cherry erythristic, albino Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
>>1.1 melanistic Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
>>2.0 66% het snow Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
>>1.1 triple heterozygous for amelanistic,carmel, and stripe Pantherophis guttatus
>>0.1 anerythristic motley Pantherophis guttatus
>>0.1 butter p.h. stripe Pantherophis guttatus
>>0.1 carmel stripe p.h. amel Pantherophis guttatus
>>0.1 amelanistic p.h. carmel,stripe Pantherophis guttatus
-----
Patsy

boxienuts Sep 20, 2008 07:10 PM

Well I come here to laugh, have fun chatting boxies, and learn about box turtles, myself, and the people who keep them. It was good discusion and it's certainly nothing personal against Curtis, he is one of my favorite posters here, because at least he has the stones to make oppinions,arguements, challenges, discusion, ect. and not just follow and except what others say, thats how we learn and grow. I'm definately not saying I'm right about everything or "know it all" but at least I do have an oppinion about certain things, but that is always subject to change and there is always room to learn and grow.
-----
Jeff Benfer
1.0 cinnamon pastel Python regius
1.1 pastel Python regius
1.1 mojave Python regius
0.3 normal Python regius
1.3 Terrapene carolina thriunguis
2.3 Terrapene carolina carolina
4.1 Kinosternon baurii
1.1 Malaclemys terrapin terrapin
2.2 double het albino and anerythristicThamnophis sirtalis parietalis
1.0 anerythristic Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis
2.3 Iowa snow Thamnophis radix
0.2 het Christmas albino Thamnophis radix
1.1 double het cherry erythristic, albino Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
1.1 melanistic Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
2.0 66% het snow Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
1.1 triple heterozygous for amelanistic,carmel, and stripe Pantherophis guttatus
0.1 anerythristic motley Pantherophis guttatus
0.1 butter p.h. stripe Pantherophis guttatus
0.1 carmel stripe p.h. amel Pantherophis guttatus
0.1 amelanistic p.h. carmel,stripe Pantherophis guttatus

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