Reptile & Amphibian Forums

could the snake at the end of this video be a young indigo

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=N0G80tZXw6w
Florida

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If holding a cobra does not make you sweat than you should not be holding one.

I think it's a water snake(Nerodia sp.), if you have time and can freeze frame look at the scalation on the head, labials etc. Looks pretty heavy bodied, so I am skeptical that it's a racer (Coluber sp.). One of the East coast guys should nail it at a glance...what say the brethrin'?...

nerodia.....close set eyes.....sorta on the dorsal side of the head

I live in florida. its deffinetly not a balck racer. My best guess is an indigo. Although the head is a little bit wierd shaped. but i dont think its a banded water snake either so my best guess is an indigo. also there are a few subspecies found in flrodia so it could be a differnt subspecies then im used to seeing, its almost liek its eye sticks out a little to far to be an indigo, but i still go with indigo. if it is an indigo very good find because they are pretty rare. i would love to add one to my snake collection (i have 7) but being in florida its illegal to own one without a permit.

Nerodia for sure. Ditto what Bob said.

I'm an "east coast guy" who also lives in FL (you probably could guess from my username) and I'm kind of surprised that no one so far was even close to getting the ID right.

I will admit though...I did have to play the clip twice before being sure, but that is absolutely what it is. (Anyone notice the slight curve on the front of its snout? Eastern Hognose snakes have the least pronounced curve on their snout of all of the Heterodon (N.A. hognose), but it is still clearly visible in the video.)
Also, I could understand that some of you were thrown off by the fact that it was alomost all black, but black/melanistic eastern hognoses occur all the time in the wild

Anway, that's what it is...not as rare as an Indigo, but still a great find!

~Alex

Man we suck lol! Thats totaly what it is! Its kinda hard to picture them without being upside down.
http://www.carolinanature.com/herps/ehognosesnake.html
Nate

dude....that is not a heterodon.......check out the last close up...the rostral is smooth not pointed or upturned.....hogs are not night time prolers....we all know that.....this snake was on the move....nereodia

Bob's right-Nerodia. The lack of even a mildly upturned rostral is a dead giveaway.
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

I guess we see things differently cause it looks like an upturned rostral to me in the very last shot. Size wise it also doesn't look as big as I first thought. I would think nerodia that has turned that dark would be a larger animal? Also Nerodia neck compared to body is smaller while Heterodon look like sausages all the way.

I know two things for sure if it wasn't a "Blaire witch project" shot we could be sure and second it's not Drymarchon
Nate

I think you were right the first time Nate. Looks like Nerodia to me.

John

John where you been man? You need to post some pics of my Spilotes brother.
Yeah I must have seen that video 50 times now. I guess I should just go with my first instinct but then FL made me think twice doh.
Nate

I can't believe that so many of you think that it is a snake that looks almost nothing like the one in the vid.

Now, I won't waste my time for very much longer on this topic (if you want to think it's a Nerodia) then whatever...but think about a few of these basic observations:

1. The snake is very heavy-bodied from head to as far as you can see (not just the middle section).

2. It is JET black as far as I can see, and I've never seen any water snake from Florida that didn't have some pattern.

3. It has white under its chin (never seen a water snake from Florida with distinct white under its chin either).

4. It eyes are large and buggy, and situated somewhat on the top of its head (not characteristic of Nerodia at all).

5. The area behind and under its eyes is flattend (very characterisic of a hognose).

6. AND...IT'S ROSTRUM IS UPTURNED! (At around 4:12 the light really shows where its head stops and the upturned rostral scale begins).
Like I said in my first post, I know that Eastern Hognoses have the least pronounced curve on their snout of any Heterodon...but if you pause the video, it should be plain as day.

Oh, but I suppose since it was found at night that I should just ignore all that and call it Nerodia.

If you really want to convince me that you are right, post a picture of a Black phase Eastern Hognose and a Nerodia that occurs in Florida that looks more like the snake in the video than the hognose.

I have no problem with being wrong, but in this case I firmly believe (unless you post a picture of a Nerodia native to Florida that looks totally different than anything that I have ever seen) that I am right.

~Alex

see hognose forum

Alex, there is no need to get so heated. No one is insulting your intelligence, or demeaning you. Clearly, some of us have contrasting conceptions of the identification of this snake. I could be wrong, but I always thought that we are entitled to our own opinions - that is to say, even if they don't match your own.

I personally see Nerodia. If I had to specify which species, I would say Nerodia clarkii compressicauda, though I will admit water snakes are not my specialty. I will say it seems a likely possibility as this snake ranges through much of Florida and is sometimes black in color with a muted or nonexistent pattern. This species also has the characteristic highly set eyes of all Nerodia (as they are water snakes, and most aquatic snakes have highly set eyes to view above the surface without entirely exposing their bodies) - and it's even generally active at night.
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Roy Blodgett
Green Man Herpetoculture
royreptile@yahoo.com

1.1 Spilotes pullatus
2.2 Pseustes sulphureus
1.1 Pseustes poecilonotus poecilonotus
1.1 Lystrophis pulcher
1.1 Boiga dendrophila dendrophila
1.2 Crotaphytus collaris
1.3 Crotaphytus bicinctores
2.3 Pogona vitticeps (snow and red/gold)
1.0 Iguana iguana

After talking with one of my friends and looking through a bunch more pictures of the two species, I'm going to agree with you guys.

When I considered all of the factors again, the most logical decision that I can reach at this point is that the snake in the video is a Nerodia and not a hognose.

I'm sorry if I came off as aggressive towards anyone...I just went with what my first instinct was on the ID of the snake and didn't leave much room for convincing otherwise. (Not very professional of me.)

The ID of some snake in a low-quality video from YouTube is definitely nothing to get fired up about.

So, I think that this thread has come to an end, and that it is agreed that the snake is most likely a water snake.

My apologizes again for being so hard-headed.

Take care,

Alex

"Thems were discouraging words on the Heterodon forum about us Dry guys"...Apology accepted. I always think "name this herp" is kind of fun, and you are so right, photo documentation unless very carefully done is sometimes not enough to be certain, hence the need for voucher specimens etc. with a skeptical biolgical/academic community.

No problem.
I completely agree with you, it is hard to tell the identity of a snake from a low-quality Youtube video, and even harder when the footage is filmed at night with a flashlight as the primary light source.
No offense taken, we're all stubborn at times.
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Roy Blodgett
Green Man Herpetoculture
royreptile@yahoo.com

1.1 Spilotes pullatus
2.2 Pseustes sulphureus
1.1 Pseustes poecilonotus poecilonotus
1.1 Lystrophis pulcher
1.1 Boiga dendrophila dendrophila
1.2 Crotaphytus collaris
1.3 Crotaphytus bicinctores
2.3 Pogona vitticeps (snow and red/gold)
1.0 Iguana iguana

Thanks guys for understanding.

Yeah, without a doubt I think that the "name that snake" sort of game can be very fun, but sometimes there is just not enough detail to be certain.

I agree with you too about the lighting in this specific video.
I think the flashlight really messed me up, and made the snake look much different from what it would have in daylight.

Also, I definietly don't regard "Dry guys" as bad at indentifying snakes or anything...I personally like Drys more than Heterodon, and feel honored to get to work with a couple of Eastern Indigos that belong to a close friend of mine who has the very difficult to obtain permit for.

Like I said...just got carried away and thought that you guys were messing up an "easy ID", and thought it was humorous.
Totally screwed that up though, as you guys have clearly earned the right to now laugh at me.

You guys gotta start listening to old man Bob. He made some good points. The guy's got like 80 years experience in the field!

Take it from the hognose expert...NERODIA!
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www.gradeareptiles.com

Im gonna side with FL_Herper
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If holding a cobra does not make you sweat than you should not be holding one.

Definitely nerodia. Not heteradon or indigo.
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Matt Kauffman

Sorry, didn't read the whole post and see that the discussion is over. Nice work by everyone.
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Matt Kauffman