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Anyone have any suggestions as to what kind of kingsnake this could be? I got him in a package deal along with a het female.

Thanks,

Jim

>>Anyone have any suggestions as to what kind of kingsnake this could be? I got him in a package deal along with a het female.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Jim
>>
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www.brandonosbornereptiles.com

It looks to be what some would "call" an albino Eastern King, and it DOES resemble one,....but to call it ALL EASTERN would probably be a huge stretch.

Didn't the source where you got it from say anything about what it was when they gave it to you?

best regards, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

It is one of those "to the best of my knowledge" snakes, so it is unclear. I only know of two true albino Easterns having existed. That's "to the best of MY knowlegde"! It is a neat animal, though. I plan on reproducing it. Thanks for the replies to all.

Jim Godfrey
Rebel Ratsnakes

Without trying to sound too skeptical on this, how are you certain the two you mentioned were absolute true forms?

thanks, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

My source is very knowledgeable. He lived in Georgia. One was kept in the zoo there and was bred. The other one was caught by someone else he knew. I'll get him to post the details. Both were W/Cs I believe. I doubt that mine are descendants, though. I tend to believe mine have another influence besides Eastern. They have been cleaned up pretty well, though.

Yes, I've also heard of the alleged Eastern being captured from the Georgia area. It seems this will always continue to be one of life's great mysteries..LOL!

thanks, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

In fact I know of 3 pure Albino Eastern Kingsnakes in the past.

1st was a WC from New Jersey. Bob Fengya (name from the past huh) was working part time at a pet store and received a call from a Dad stating his son had caught a snake in a burn/trash pile behind their home. He stated they couldn't get it to eat and was hoping that if they brought it to the store they may give him some kind of a credit towards a "python" or something. They told him to bring it in and they would do something for him. When they brought it in, Bob said he saw the kid walking towards him with one of the large pickle jars and in it he could see a "white" snake. Bob recognized it as an Eastern King and purchased it from teh kid. Not sure what the amount was but I remember it was enough for the kid to get a ball python and set up. When Bob purchased the snake it was approximately 14"-18" long from what I remember. It was also a female. The kid had had only had it for a few weeks. Bob raised it to breeding size and placed it with a male. In a bad stroke of luck, or call it what you want, he fell asleep on the couch and when he woke, the male had killed the female and was comsumming her. End of that line. I think this was along the mid 80's.

The 2nd amel I know of was a wc amel male. It was caught in Kernersville, Georgia I think. Either way it was just off I-85 on highway 106. It was caught coming out of a Cudzoo ravine. The male was taken to Doug Moody (originator of the albino Nelsons Milk) in POwder Spring, SC. I can't remember the size but either way, he bred it to one female. Same thing, she killed the male but the breeding did take and she produced some "hets" Doug sold a pair to someone who I can't remember but never told them they were possibly het amel. The others were given/sold to Randy Knight. I think that is the name, per Doug, it was the guy who used to put on the every 6 week show in Columbia, SC. This is where my memory is a little faded but I think Doug said Randy never did anything with the project, some babies were sold to different places but none were sold as pairs and the line was never reproduced to my knowledge. This is from probably the late 80's early 90's.

Snake 3 was a WC that belonged to the Zoo Atlanta collection. A lady called the Zoo and said she had a yellow snake in her garage and asked them to come and get it. She was in a rural area outside of Atlanta and they sent 2 guys out. The pulled a washer and dryer out of the wall in the garage and tada there was an Albino Eastern King. It was placed in the collection. It was a hatchling. They raised her and she was bred several times. Babies were always sent or traded to other institutions but non made it to private hands. I contacted Howard Hunt several times trying to purchase some since I knew they were a pure animal (the female adult was stunning, great looking snake). I offered as much as $500.00 for a pair of hets or $350.00 for a het male and he refused every time. The adult finally persished a few years ago. So, that line is out there but good luck getting your hands on any from it.

I heard rumors of an albino black kingsnake coming out of Tennesee or North Georgia. It supposedly came from the integrade zone so my personal belief is that some of the albino Eastern kings we see are probably descendants from that line.

Well, that is what I know, you can ask questions and I really do not know more than that, sorry. You can contradict me, I really don't care because I know what I know and I don't like arguing or defending my knowledge over the internet. Not being a jerk, I just don't like arguing over something like this.

dc

I certainly wasn't going to make a fuss over any of it . As a matter of fact, it all sounds very interesting and believable to me, and sounds similar to what I've heard from others too, and I appreciate you chiming in with the info. This very much reinforces some of the other info I've heard in the past regarding the amel getula. I'm very familiar with several of the names you mentioned as well, and they are very credible.

I don't have a problem at all with the likelihood of there being a couple found here and there a while back, as Easterns are a very commonly found, prolific subspecies, so it would be very likely that some would have been captured, or otherwise shown up from time to time. But going on what I DO know from other people in the "know" as well, it is pretty much exactly as you mentioned. There "were" some, but they were eaten by mates, and the hets that were produced were never exposed as amel genotype carriers to be later bred to each other for any number of reasons, and thus never re-surfaced. Sort of like the amel Eastern Milksnake with Don Hamper,but as I recall, he never could get his to breed at all....although I DO know a guy that recently captured an authentic amel male triangulum in his own back yard last year, so the future might look good for those hopefully.

The fact that they have basically remained unknown except for many years ago to all the "heavy-hitters" of the king hobby is more less proof that there probably isn't any true amel Easterns as of yet floating around, and with all the huge craze to cross things all the time now just makes things even more questionable too. As mentioned in earlier posts, amel niger(nigra), and holbrooki are known, and very likely the genetic contributors to the ones we see in the hobby now days, and especially if some back-breeding is done, they will look very convincing to most, if not all.

Thanks a bunch for posting what you knew about those amel Easterns from years back, that coincides very well with other things I've heard in the past.

BTW,...something that really made me laugh in the beginning of your post was this......"Not sure what the amount was but I remember it was enough for the kid to get a ball python and set up."
...LOL!!! That is funny as all heck!, sort of like a young kid taking a shiny quarter over an ugly green $100 dollar bill..hahaha!

Thanks again!, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

No problem on the post. Yeah, I could see the kid also.

I really believe the most common line of Amel Eastern Kings is a result of the albino male found in the integrade zone so currently that is about as close as you can get. Oh well!

dc

Yes, that's quite possible, and I'm sure there are some of those out in the hobby, but by the same token, I'm also sure other guys have been busy making their "own" look-alike version of albino Easterns from purposely crossing stuff they have in their snake rooms too for quite some time. That's the part I don't like much.

Thanks again for your insight!

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

....we won't get much more specific info since some of the alleged w/c were from states that prohibit collection of their animals...??
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

That hasn't stopped other lines lines
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Darwin Rocks!

Well I shoulda been more clear that I think that we won't get an accurate story. TN and GA protect their herps and if the wc came from either...then what can we expect?
Brings up an interesting question....
If someone was to find a "morph" or otherwise different looking phenotype or whatever but that said animal was from a state that protects its native herps, would he/could he be prosecuted later??
Are there statutes of limitations in regards to these laws?
Anyone know about GA or TN other than their protection of native "normal" animals??
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

"I heard rumors of an albino black kingsnake coming out of Tennesee or North Georgia. It supposedly came from the integrade zone so my personal belief is that some of the albino Eastern kings we see are probably descendants from that line."

BINGO but having read the rest of your post things might be a bit more complicated. The TN albinos came from a reptile keeper at the Baltimore Zoo who was eventually let go for some dealings that went against zoo policy. It is quite possible that the TN connection was a cover and that line is actually the same as the sequestered zoo line that originated out of GA.
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Darwin Rocks!

Eastern king x niger.

....or even holbrooki influence too. As you know, that animal could have been made any number of several different ways with different percentages of influence from either or all.

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

That is the reason I put "eastern" in "". The story behind the amel easterns is iffy at best. Who knows?

>>....or even holbrooki influence too. As you know, that animal could have been made any number of several different ways with different percentages of influence from either or all.
>>
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>> ~Doug
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>>"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"
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www.brandonosbornereptiles.com

Yes, I knew that's what you meant as well.

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"