Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've seen your post of different bull morph's "babies". Ice? bull, "red" bull, "lavender" ghost and "lavender" snow.

I'm not calling you out, so to speak! But, I'm very curious. Do you have adult's and pictures of the snakes you have posted? I don't seem to see any pictures of them as adults on your web site.

Maybe the black background you use takes away from the beauty of the bulls you photograph.

I've missed the last two Daytona show's. I haven't seen any of your bulls in person, if you wre presnt before that I must of just past your table, as nothing caught my eye. I respect you as a pit breeder. I, prsonally. just would like to see more of these morphs grown then babies. As pit breeders we know that what you see as a baby doesn't usually look the same months to a year later.

I would also love to see your Ivory line of bulls.

But then I think you will take offense to this post. I hope not as it is not intended to be mean in any way.

Thanks,
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B

Crazy Fridder don't be a hater. Your statements just show that you don't know the newest morph possibilities of bulls coming out in the last year or two due to the multi hets that are just recently coming of age for breeding. As Jason is one of the first to produce some and the very first to produce others you might do better to ask Jason questions instead of making insinuations.
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Randy Whittington

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in the light, you will find the road...

We see this on the King forum with the newer Brooks mutations too. People see pics of snakes and think they're readily available when the truth is in some cases they're looking at pics of snakes that number less than 5 in total as far as how many have been produced. Matter of fact people do not seem to realize how difficult it is to produce some of these....like quadruple homozygous morphs for example....
Every season many people look forward to seeing new mutations, some people feel the need to pick them apart, it's freakin annoying....
Questioning things as to the how and why they look the way they do is one thing. That is to be expected. But when a guy like Jason puts years into making these things and that standout snake appears in a clutch we should accept the snake for what he says he thinks it is and be glad that he accomplished his goal, not rain on his parade.
Tom Stevens
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TomsSnakes.com

I’ve read and reread my original post. I’m lost how all you people are taking offense to it to the extent of name calling! In no way was I bashing or attacking Jason! I even said I respected him as a pit breeder, and I do!

Maybe I didn’t use a question mark at the end of every sentence but that doesn’t mean that they weren’t questions.

The most insulting thing in my post was that I may have passed his table and nothing caught my eye. Key words “may have” and there are tons of reasons that could be so. Maybe he wasn’t there, his table was too crowded to see anything, he sold out of all things that might of interested me.

I understand one person who chimed in point. Their maybe a very limited number of some color morphs out there. But to be considered a “true” color morph the gene needs to be validated. Just having an odd looking or abnormal colored animal does not make it a morph until it is proven to be a recessive, dominate and can be mass duplicated.

Example, I have a pair of multi W/S hets. This pair rarely throws off 2 that look the same. I get numerous color W/S “ghost” phases, clean ivories, no W/S snow looks the same (one snow has the appearance of a patternless W/S snow but who knows if it will retain it’s color and pattern in a year from now) and last year I would of bet my life one of them was a azaxthic W/S but a year later the same snake looks much different. Who knows what this pair will through off next year? Now if I were to post or put an add in the classifieds calling these snakes whatever name I wanted. I’d get a lot of slack for it. That’s why I’ve held back every baby these 2 have produced. I want to wait and see if these colors can be duplicated before introducing them.

Before you ask for photos of the pits I’m talking about. You’ll have to wait! I currently am working with a Kodak that has no macro, I need to get a better camera.

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B

a lot of excellent breeders attend the Daytona show, but some of the best pit breeders don't go to that show at all; it is not necessarily the mark of a good or trustworthy breeder.

also most/all of the traits used to make the morphs Jason is producing are proven many times over. In part now it is the selection of the best gene pools and choice of combinations to make some of these new morphs. A breeder has to call a new morph something, either "x" or ice or whatever and be able to demonstrate how he did it ( what combo of morphs produced it). It is a snippet of the scientific method, part of maketing and part of the fun of herpetoculture to do what Jason is doing. the wheel was already invented so roll with it!

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in the light, you will find the road...

I new morphs have to be produced from a combination of something else. As an example, the Dogo Argentino (Argentine Mastiff) is the resulting of many different breeds of dogs to get the right combo for their purpose. It is now a recognized breed but they had to start somewhere. You would not see pics because there aren't any, yet.

A quad het animal could easily be passed over as some look fairly normal but are carrying the genes for several morphs. This year at Daytona, the pits were fairly well represented I thought. Just to back up what some of the other people are saying, is that Jason has spent considerable time getting to this point in defining and refining different morphs.

Scott Robinson

Tom, Randy, Scott and Dave. Having good friends makes this hobby that much funnier.

Thanks jason