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I have a male hypo het albino that one of his parents was a lipstick line sunglow and other was arab het albino. I dont understand how the lipstick gene works, i know that when i put him with my albino female 25% of the babies should be sunglow but could any of them have the lipstick traits?
jim royal

Lipstick, Pastel, Coral are all muilti genetic traits of the same morph. Meaning both parents don't need to care the trait to pass the offspring however the Albino needs to be compatible. So far are the versions of Albino (lipstick, coral, pastel) are found in the Kahl line. I haven't heard of any variety in the Sharp line to my knowledge.

HTH
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Jeremy Payne
JB Reptile
Specializing in Boa Morph's

1.0 Snow "Khal"
0.2 Triple Het Moonglow "Khal"
0.1 Orange Tail Hypo Het Leopard
1.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow
1.0 Ghost
0.1 Possible Super Hypo
0.1 DH Ghost
1.1 "Khal" Albino
1.0 Hypomelenistic
1.3 Pastel Hypo
0.1 Suriname/Columbian cross
0.1 Anerthrystic

To Clarify a wee bit....

Lipstick, Pastel, Coral are all line bred, multi genetic traits that affect the expression of color(s). These are most clearly seen (identified) when in the albino trait (Kahl) is also present.

Unknown at this time if they would also have the same affect on Sharp strain Albino.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

>>To Clarify a wee bit....
>>
>>Lipstick, Pastel, Coral are all line bred, multi genetic traits that affect the expression of color(s). These are most clearly seen (identified) when in the albino trait (Kahl) is also present.
>>
>>Unknown at this time if they would also have the same affect on Sharp strain Albino.

Thanks, your thoughts are as elegant as ever...

The only way to know if the Lipstick, Gee, Pastel "variable" has an effect on the "Sharp" line, is to breed and continue to breed visual Normal's back to the "Sharp" constant. And observe and record the findings. Obviously with Gee and pastel this is easier since they aren't a albino variable per-say. Lipstick however would be difficult, but not impossible.

You would just need normal (non-het) offspring from lipstick pairings breed to a "sharp" albino, for which you breed the offspring to each other. You could do the same by breeding the son back to mother but this would decrease the potential expression.

I'm just not a fan of in-breeding....although its safe to say it has occurred.

Cheers
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Jeremy Payne
JB Reptile
Specializing in Boa Morph's

1.0 Snow "Khal"
0.2 Triple Het Moonglow "Khal"
0.1 Orange Tail Hypo Het Leopard
1.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow
1.0 Ghost
0.1 Possible Super Hypo
0.1 DH Ghost
1.1 "Khal" Albino
1.0 Hypomelenistic
1.3 Pastel Hypo
0.1 Suriname/Columbian cross
0.1 Anerthrystic

Lipstick albinos are a line of Kahl albino started by the Burkes at Burke Reptiles. This is just like there are Summit line pastels, Gee line hypos, etc.

>>Lipstick albinos are a line of Kahl albino started by the Burkes at Burke Reptiles. This is just like there are Summit line pastels, Gee line hypos, etc.

I don't disagree with that.

However a Lipstick can be breed with any Kahl but not a Sharp, I was poorly attempting to stat that delineation. When people use the word line there is often a misunderstanding as the compatability. Often to the negative aspect meaning they forget Sharp doesn't mix....

In reality the term muiltigenic isn't proper either, as all genetic traits are. There simple aren't enough genes for each trait to have its own place, kinda like binary 5 is expressed as 101 it takes three to represent 1. Same with genetic the genes are all the same weather they are on or off and in what order is the difference.

I can call anything a "Line" weather or not it sticks is a different story but we all agree Kahl and Sharp are indeed separate. What variables occur in these lines are a different matter.

Cheers
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Jeremy Payne
JB Reptile
Specializing in Boa Morph's

1.0 Snow "Khal"
0.2 Triple Het Moonglow "Khal"
0.1 Orange Tail Hypo Het Leopard
1.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow
1.0 Ghost
0.1 Possible Super Hypo
0.1 DH Ghost
1.1 "Khal" Albino
1.0 Hypomelenistic
1.3 Pastel Hypo
0.1 Suriname/Columbian cross
0.1 Anerthrystic

>>In reality the term muiltigenic isn't proper either, as all genetic traits are.

I don't know where the rest of my post went, somewhere into cyberspace, but here it is.

All genetic traits are NOT multigenic, or polygenic which is really the correct term. Polygenism doesn't just mean that multiple genes are affected, it means that they also have a quantitative affect on the phenotype. Things Kahl albinism are simple recessive traits and are not polygenic. The amount of color in an individual is however. I'm not always a fan of Wikipedia but this article is actually very accurate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantitative_trait_locus

If you don't like Wikipedia, try this article I had to read several years ago in AP Biology. It goes very in depth into the mathematical aspect of polygenism, but if you skim through it makes the concept much easier to understand. http://www.genetics.org/cgi/reprint/147/3/1423?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=polygenic&andorexactfulltext=and&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT

I also don't agree that anything can be a line. A line is created through generations of selected breeding by individuals that have proven to have the same reproducible characteristics. People surely will try to pass animals off as being descendants of lines that they aren't, which is a shame and very wrong. Breeders who have taken the time and effort to create a line whether it be in boas or dog breeding deserve to have their name on it and have people that continue to line breed their animals follow the same care when selecting breeding pairs. That's all just my two cents though.

"Pastel Dream Sharps" have been produced for a few years now by Doug Matuszak of Boa Basement. He even produced "Pastel Dream" Sharp Sunglows this year. Thought i would throw that out there since noone seems to know of "Pastel" Sharps.

Thanks
Anthony

>>"Pastel Dream Sharps" have been produced for a few years now by Doug Matuszak of Boa Basement. He even produced "Pastel Dream" Sharp Sunglows this year. Thought i would throw that out there since noone seems to know of "Pastel" Sharps.
>>
>>Thanks
>>Anthony

Wasn't familiar with that thank you.
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Jeremy Payne
JB Reptile
Specializing in Boa Morph's

1.0 Snow "Kahl"
0.2 Triple Het Moonglow "Kahl"
0.1 Orange Tail Hypo Het Leopard
1.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow
1.0 Ghost
0.1 Possible Super Hypo
0.1 DH Ghost
1.1 "Kahl" Albino
1.0 Hypomelenistic
1.3 Pastel Hypo
0.1 Suriname/Columbian cross
0.1 Anerthrystic

>>"Pastel Dream Sharps" have been produced for a few years now by Doug Matuszak of Boa Basement. He even produced "Pastel Dream" Sharp Sunglows this year. Thought i would throw that out there since noone seems to know of "Pastel" Sharps.

>>Thanks Anthony

I'm glad you stated this fact Anthony ,thanks. I was jumping up and down reading this post getting ready to point this fact out !
. . . . . Lar M

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Boas By Klevitz
Boas By Klevitz

I wasn't aware of that though it doesn't seem shocking to me that they've been created. I'm sure they are quite eye catching as are all of Doug's animals. Anyone have any pictures?

To be clear Joley I was pointing to Doug producing the Pastel Dream Sharps in general. He did not successfully produce that elusive P.D. Sharp Sunglow yet.
Another extremely stunning Pastel Dream Sharp Albino was produced this past season though.
. . . . . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz
Boas By Klevitz

What I was calling a gene is actually called a Codon, there are only 64 codon's and 27,000 genes in the human body. That was my point, and while some traits are simple recessive many are actually polygenic. Coloration, eye color are just a few examples. However considering Kahl and Sharp are non compatable suggests to me that there may be more than a simple recessive trait in play.

HTH

To expand on that a little, many hundreds to several thousands of codons make up one gene. So if a codon is equivalent to a letter in the alphabet, a gene is the equivalent of from several paragraphs to several pages of text.

It takes many normal genes to produce normal pigmentation. These include the normal version of the Kahl albino mutant gene, the normal version of the Sharp albino mutant gene, the normal version of the salmon mutant gene, the normal version of the caramel albino mutant gene, the normal version of the various tyrosinase-positive albino mutant genes, etc. You can think of the process as an assembly line. If all the machines in the line are working as expected, the product coming off the end of the line is normal. If one machine in the line is malfunctioning, the product is somehow abnormal. If a different machine in the line is malfunctioning, the product coming off the end of the line is abnormal, but in a different way.

Kahl albino is a single mutant trait because it requires only one change from normal to produce a Kahl albino. All the many thousands of normal genes at the other locations in the genome are still there, but they are ignored for simplicity.

You might want to read up on the wild type concept in genetics. Wild type is the most common phenotype and the most common gene at each locus in the wild population. Wild type is also the standard of comparison.

Paul Hollander