Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am thinking of switching my rat breeding to ASF rats. I've heard that they don't smell as bad, and I can feed off my older adults. My only fear is that nobody will buy my baby snakes because they don't want the hassle of trying to switch from ASF to normal rats.

I currently have one beautiful female pastel that only eats gerbils and I have tried shake and bake MANY times. I have a collection of 23 or so B.P.'s

Please chime in with your opinions.
Good Vs. Bad, etc.

Thanx, Justin

There are a couple of things I don't like about ASF's. They are much slower breeders and growers than normal rats. I find I need to produce quite a few just to feed the couple of problem feeders I have.

They are much cleaner though.
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

I started with 6 this spring, now I have 6,000!

I personally, as a buyer.... would rather buy snakes eating rat pups.... over ASF or mice...

BUT I have my first gerbil eater in the group now... so my opinion on switching over might change soon....

When I get further down the line (2 years or so) and start having a few clutches of my own... I may have a totally different opinion all together about ASF's... I would like to NEVER breed rats or asfs or gerbils or mice... just not my thing... BUT my goal in rescue AND as a small breeder (when the time comes) is to ensure that my snakes (and other animals) eat-- and I have gone to and will go to great lengths to make sure they eat... so....

I say do what you need to do as a breeder to offer healthy babies to your customers....

~Beth
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Until there are none, Rescue One! Get ready to welcome the new and improved Oklahoma Animal Rescue Group -- Just a few weeks away from getting our 501c3 status!!!!!

>>I personally, as a buyer.... would rather buy snakes eating rat pups.... over ASF or mice...
>>
>>BUT I have my first gerbil eater in the group now... so my opinion on switching over might change soon....
>>

Eventually they will reach the point in the market that people will be able to buy them frozen as a staple much like mice, rats, gerbils, hamsters, rabbits, quail, etc.
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DP

Hmmm....

I am going to disagree about the comment made regarding the ASF Rats being slower breeders than standard rats.
In my opinion, if they are maintained correctly, they are just as prolific...if not a little MORE prolific.
THEY REALLY BREED WELL!

The only problem that I can think of...I wish the ASF rats would grow as large as adult jumbo standard rats.
Then again, if you are feeding Ball Pythons...the meals offered do not need to be all that large. So the size thing is not really even an issue.

People say they dont smell as bad as regular rats.
I will say...they both smell...but it is a different smell.
It seems to be more of a sweet smell with the ASF....(but still not a "pleasant" sorta sweet smell, LOL!)
Certainly the ASF rats are not as stinky as mice! MICE STINK!

I think that before long you will not have to worry about what your snake prefers to eat. The ASF rats are a fairly new type of feeder here in the USA.
I have friends in Europe who have been using them for many years. These African Soft Furred Rats are more commonly referred to as Multimamate Rats/Mice (many nippled rats or mice) in Europe. They are a fairly common or standard feeder in Germany.
Rodent breeders in Europe have working with ASF rats much longer than we have here in the USA.
It has become a common option there. Giving the snake breeder another choice when it comes to a selecting a specifc food item for a specific snake. They seem to also be very popular with venomous snake keepers, Emerald Tree Boa Keepers and keepers of odd rear fanged species like the Mussarana.
(Although many of those snakes are not natives of Africa...they do seem to LOVE the AFS rats!!!)

The ASF rats are MUCH more prolific than gerbils!

And the best part about feeding ASF rats to ball pythons...
....if you have a snake that needs to put on a few hundred grams quickly...there is no other food item that will put the weight on faster than the African Soft Furred Rats!

As well, they are an absolute dream come true for anyone who is working with a new "special looking" import adult ball python!
Let's face it...import balls can be difficult and are certainly not a good choice for a beginner. But if you have a REALLY special adult import...it is imperative that you get it feeding...and the sooner the better. This is where the ASF rats truly outshine standard feeders!

I have never personally had a problem with any snakes becoming "stuck" on ASF rats...on the contrary, I have used them to get many snakes back feeding after they have gone into a brief fasting period. I just offer them an ASF rat....to sorta "prime them" into eating again...then the very next meal is a standard rat. Works like a charm!
Soon they will become as common as Standard/"domestic" Rats and Mice are here in the USA....so there should be no problem.
All in all...I am a big fan of the ASF Rat!
Variety...the spice of life.

Harlin Wall - WALL TO WALL REPTILES!
970-245-7611
970-255-9255

np
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Kyle
www.royalvariations.com

"be safe, be happy and dont let anyone make you afraid" David Coverdale

I just got a couple of trios this past spring at the Tampa show, and seems like I have a jillion of them now! They don't seem to drink as much as regular rats and mice, and don't seem to stink as much, and can go a little longer without cleaning. And they mostly urinate in a corner or two, so you can spot clean those areas, and not change the complete litter every time. They don't seem to fight as much as regular mice. I have 3.9 set up in a big rat cage, and they are FULL of babies of all sizes now. And they are cute, too! Some strains are said to be quite vicious, but the strain I got is not bad at all. They do take a little longer to grow, but at least they will never get too big for my young adult BPs - they just don't seem to like really big meals like big rats.

I don't have a/c for my rodents (the coils kept getting eaten up from the ammonia), so the mice and rats don't produce many babies in the Florida summer. But my ASF rats were fairly prolific over the summer. If they continue to do well all winter, I will replace most (but not all) of my mice and rats with them. I won't feed baby snakes for sale with them unless ASF rats become common feeders. But I will feed them to my keepers. And if I find my keepers will still accept regular rats or mice, then I will feed the ASF to all of my baby pythons, and even some of my corns. I don't raise ALL of my feeders - I still buy some. But so far, I am impressed with the soft furs.

np
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Kyle
www.royalvariations.com

"be safe, be happy and dont let anyone make you afraid" David Coverdale

Thanks Kyle!
How's life treating you?
Hope all is well.

Hey Kathy,

Great post!
You hit the nail on the head...especially with the "toilet" in the corner of the cage thing! You really CAN almost spot clean with the ASF rats. I am glad to hear that you are also enjoying them.
And as you pointed out, they also really do seem to go thru less food and water.

Although they can be a little agressive...(usually only to newly introduced cage mates)...they do well in colonies that are set up and raised together from the weaned size.

If I find that I need to replace a female..or male...I only do this when I clean the tub. By adding the new rat and the rest of the colony to a clean tub with new fresh bedding...they do not fight with the new cage member.

As long as you do not let the cage over populate, they take good care of the babies...and form little community nurseries.
These rats have more teats than standard mice or rats.
Although it is not as if they have more numerous babies per litter....they do seem to rebound faster after having a litter.
(Because they do a better job of communally nursing their own offspring, as well as the babies from another female)
This allows them to produce more babies over a perioud of time, and they produce them more consistently.

Perfect for feeding to snakes!!!!

African Soft Furred Rats are quite protective of the babies...and sometimes of thier cage too! Once in a while they might try to nip your fingers. I just pick them up be the handle....er, I mean tail...lol.
But, they are not any more (or less) inclined to bite your snake than a standard feeder rodent.
I have noticed the some Ball Pythons that will not accept thawed standard rodents WILL take thawed ASF rats!
That alone makes them worthwhile!!!!

Harlin Wall - WALL TO WALL REPTILES!
970-245-7611
970-255-9255

>>I have noticed the some Ball Pythons that will not accept thawed standard rodents WILL take thawed ASF rats!
>>That alone makes them worthwhile!!!!

I wondered about that.
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

>>>>I have noticed the some Ball Pythons that will not accept thawed standard rodents WILL take thawed ASF rats!
>>>>That alone makes them worthwhile!!!!
>>
>>I wondered about that.
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>>Jay A. Martin
>>Jay Martin Reptiles
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

Hi Harlin,

It has been a crazy, busy summer. We need to catch up soon. As always thanks for the great info.

Your Friend, Kyle
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Kyle
www.royalvariations.com

"be safe, be happy and dont let anyone make you afraid" David Coverdale

Something else to keep in mind. With regular mice and rats you can often separate out individuals when needed, but with the ASF they really cannot be kept individually. They have to be kept in social groups otherwise they can go suicidal and die from depression. So if you have a pregnant female you have to have other adults with her.. her newborn babies alone are not enough to meet the mental needs of the mother ASF. or, if you have a sick individual, you can't separate it until it's healthy again...separating it from the colony would likely lead to a fast death.
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DP

Kathy,

Here's my experience with them starting on ASF's. I had a few slow starters and ended up starting them on ASF's for about three meals. On the fourth meal, offered a rat fuzzy/pup and they didn't hesitate.

In my own experience, starting on ASF's didn't keep any of mine from easily switching to rats after a few meals.

I only keep ball pythons, so I can't speak on how corns would do.

once they are established feeders. It is the BPs that I am concerned with. If I have the same luck switching them as you did, that would be great! Once I am producing even more ASF, (and don't need to keep using them to set more up), I will be doing a lot of experimenting, feeding them off at various sizes for various snakes.

I love them! We dumped 80 colonies of mice for ASF. Last year in utah there were only 4or 5 people that had them. This year there as prolific as mice/rats. They are the only way to go in my opin.There now being sold in local pet stores as feeders.

Really the only down side is that even tho they are becoming more widely available - - there are still a good deal of people that do not have access to them. I would think as long as either you advertised them as ASF only feeders or were able to (in the event it was necessary) get them switched to regular feeders for your customer you'll be fine.
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Tosha
JET Pythons