Reptile & Amphibian Forums

have we not produced many albino motleys this year.

I surf the boa classifieds on a day to day basis and have rarely seen 08 albino motleys for sale.

One possibility is that those that have been produced are not being sold, but held back.

Any Thoughts.......

Thanks

Brian
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Brian Gundy

www.for-goodness-snakes.com

I think a-lot of people are holding back due to this dismal economy! And in hard times who really needs a snake!!! People are also getting smarter and realizing that if you buy a codom baby for 5K by the time it's ready to breed that it will most likely not be worth half what you paid for it. Big dollar days are for the most part gone! I know I won't spend more than 2.5K on a animal from here on out. Like I have always said keep what you like, so that way you like what you have. Nothing like a little market saturation to weed out the posers!

Just my opinion.

Al Brown/Brown's Boas

Yes times are hard but even more reason to see them on the market. If you dont want to spend $2.5k on a snake right now because times are hard then why hold on to a $5k snake? Even though prices drop like crazy, as boa's get older they dont drop in price they just go up in price. At worse they stay the same in price. I baleive if you put your $5k into a boa right now in 2 years that boa will be worth the same $5k or more depending on male or female and the current market. With not to many people working with Albino Motleys right now even more reason to have one. Any how just my opinion on the whole situation. I figure if people were willing to do it before knowing prices drop then why not now. I do agree there will be less people buying them at times like this but for the most part if you could have afforded a $5k snake 2 years ago you could probably afford one now. You gotta love this hobby LoL.
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Chris Farmer
Explicit Reptiles

I bought a Jungle Het Albino in 05 for 7.5K! Do you think I can get 7.5K out of him now! I bought a pos super salmon female in 04 for 2.5K do you think I can get that for her now! I know folks that dropped 15K on a motley het albino. Now they may have made albino motleys if they are lucky, but I would like to know how many of them have made that money back! I buy what I like and even though I won't make my money back on the Jungle its cool cause he is gorgeous and that is all that matters to me! How many ads have you seen come off the classifieds it's like a broken record same "so called" high dollar stuff that has been being advertised for months!!!! If you have money then it is a great time! There are deals to be had, but there have always been deals to be had, just depends on who you know.

Al Brown/Brown's Boas

If times were so tough, wouldn't we actually see MORE classified ads? I don't get the correlation between a bad economy and people choosing not to sell their animals. Don't the people selling animals need money too? And if times are tough, wouldn't they need to sell even MORE animals, thus resulting in MORE classified ads?

I personally am holding back animals right now because I can't get what they are worth to me! What I personally produced this year are some of the finest examples of certain mutations that I have seen, thats just my opinion and I am biased. I would be interested to know how many people on here when it comes tax time claim reptile breeding as there only source of income. I do and have for the last five years! Yes, I do have a wife that works as well, but for the last three years I have made more than her and she is a RN so you know she's not making pretzels and cheese. Together our income has been slightly over six figures for the past three years. Don't want to get to informative, but I have talked to several breeders that have said they would rather keep them then sell them for lower prices. Boas aren't gas or food or diapers and when people are struggling buying snakes is most likely the last thing on their mind! Anyway just my opinion on it. And what I have felt from some of my brethen in the biz after talking with them at the Daytona show.

Al Brown/Brown's Boas

I think you actually hit the nail on the head in your first reply when you mentioned the codom part of the equation. It seems pretty obvious that when you can make a morph in first generation breedings such as the motleys,
availability skyrockets in a very short period of time and simple supply and demand quotient becomes the indicator of value.

Yeah, I have made more money on Kahl Strain albinos than anything over the last five years! Whats that tell you?

Al Brown/Brown's Boas

Al,

What you are saying is that you have made your money back and then some on everything you have purchased. Its not always just the one you purchased that will be worth what you paid but also what you have produced. As you stated, you are doing this as a business as well as a hobby. No body in there right mind stays in a business if all its doing is taking money. I know what you are saying but in the big picture, if you spend the money you will get your return. You holding back all the good stuff is a result no matter what the economy is looking like. If it didnt look that good to you then why hold on to it right?
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Chris Farmer
Explicit Reptiles

Not a hobby for me! When you have a third of a house that is 3000sqft being used for buisness then it isn't a hobby! And yes what I produced this year is nice to me, but I would sell a few things for the right price. I'm just trying to say most investments made at this point in time, in my opinion will not make a fair return for the effort put into acquiring, raising, and then breeding! I love what I do and feel extemely blessed to have done as well as I have. If you told a investment banker that your portfolio consited of only investments into reptiles he would probably laugh at you. Just glad I have put some money away for a better day! I dare you to pick out three high dollar ads and then keep track of how long they run, it might just scare you.

Al Brown/Brown's Boas

LoL I have been keeping track of plenty of high dollar adds and yes they have been going for some time now. That doesnt really bother me to much though. I think if you produce a big variety you will have more to offer then just the same ol thing every day.

As for the loan. Any one I have talked to about this that isnt much into reptiles is suprised at what can be made. If there was no money at all in this, I would probably have a few snakes and thats it. Its pretty much impossible to afford all the good stuff out there with just a every day job.
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Chris Farmer
Explicit Reptiles

I partially agree with what you're saying here.
People are realizing that yes, if you spend 5K on an animal today, the babies won't be worth that amount in 2-3 years.

The way I look at it, who cares! The market used to be like that, but how crazy was that? It was only a matter of time before the market adjusted itself. It was unreal that you could but a Motley boa for $5-7K, then in 2-3 year produce 10 Motleys and sell them for at least 5K each!

I can't speak for anyone else, but I LOVE my snakes and always have. I will still spend over 5K on an animal today....and actually, I did this year...3 times!
It still makes total sense for me to spend that kind of money on a snake that I'm excited about and be totally happy if the market adjusts it self again in 2-3 years where the offspring from that 5K snake might only be 1K. The challenge is....raise them right, and produce a healthy litter of babies.
To me that's just the tip of the iceberg if you consider the hot comobs I can make with my new snake(s)!

Again, I can only speak for myself, but the financial part of this business/hobby act only as supplemental income for me as I work full time and so does my wife. That's not to say it's not important to me as money to pay for racks, rodents, supplies, and facility costs must come from somewhere...
It would be too much for me if my snakes depended on my day job to maintain them.

Also, I wanted to mention...the reptile shop near my house seems consistently packed with people each time I go there to pick up specific rodents I need. That alone motivates me and helps off set some of the things I hear people say about how the market is not so good.

Anyways, I feel like I'm rambling now.

Thanks!!
Alex

I agree completely.

.
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www.basicallyboas.com
Email Us!

answering your own question....

I would expect most were kept and the few that are available get snapped up quick with little to no advertising.

Just like your Sunglow Motley and my Luna......
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Kinda one of those taboo questions people don't want to talk about, but should!

Al Brown/Brown's Boas

Thanks for everyone's input.

Brian
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Brian Gundy

www.for-goodness-snakes.com

I don't know..I'm confused...

just having some fun, take it easy.

I produced some this year and sold 2.1 for what I was asking and I have the rest growing up. Simple answer, not going to get into all the hub bub about market, prices etc. All I can say is cost versus value.

Chris

Chris:

That's exactly what I figured.

Thanks for your reply.

Brian

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Brian Gundy

www.for-goodness-snakes.com

Chris:

I also wanted to add that I not only understand, but totally agree with the concept.

Hope you have a great 09 season.

Brian

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Brian Gundy

www.for-goodness-snakes.com

I got one of Chris' female albino motleys!!!!!
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Ray & Dustin Bueno
Bueno Brothers Reptiles
www.buenobros.com

Brian

I had 3 chances to produce Albino Motleys in 2008.
First litter, I got 2.0 - Keeping 1, sold the other.
Second litter, was Het to Het...got albinos, but not Albino Motleys..
Third, got a Sunglow motley in this litter, but missed on the Albino Motley...

2008 Albino motleys for me - 2.0!

Alex

Let me start but saying i hope my post doesnt offend anyone and i will probably bounce around alot. i also do not wish to get into a big long post about market prices. What i will discuss is investment animals. We all know the economy is poor. You are lucky to get 2% interest on your accounts at your local bank and i know my 401k is actually down like 20% for the year. So lets get to boas. I dont think you need to sell an animal for what you paid for it to be successful. Let say you purchased an albino motley male last year for $8k(i know you are very upset right now) and you had a big normal girl just laying around, may be worth $150 or so. Just for arguments sake he breeds this year at 18 months. In the spring of 09' you produce 20 babies all het albinos, 10 of which are motleys. We are going to work with nice easy numbers. Lets say you sell them for $1k(we all hope they are much more than that). Thats 10k plus another couple of bucks for the normal hets. Now that alone is over a 10% profit on your investment over 2 years. And you still have the parents to breed again. Not bad in a market when i just lost 20% on my 401k. So i myself would consider that a successful investment. If i gave my broker $8,150 two years ago and he gave me $10k today i would be a happy man. Thats just my three cents.

That is exactly right John except when your broker hands you that 10K, in case everyone wasn't clear, that was just the gross earnings on that investment. That initial investment of $8150 is going to ride over to next year too! Plus if you were smart enough to reinvest part of that 10K, you can now breed that Motley to something else that has the potential of making an even greater return next year! It's all good. Thanks for the post John.
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Your hypothetical situation is correct, but you have to consider the other factors envolved! Like how many other people are going to produce the exact same thing, are you always goinh to get that good of a ratio of higher end babies, sometimes yes, and sometimes no! And there is always the dreaded nonproducer or slug out! That's what leaves you saying well better luck next year! It's not like you wave your magic boa wand and "POOF" 10 motleys het albino magically appear! And thats a big if on a 18month old breeding. I know only about 50% of my males show any interest at 18months, but they always seem to know what they are doing by the time they are 2years old.

Al Brown/Brown's Boas