Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Is anyone breeding eastern fox snakes? In the past I even saw morphs. Now I don't see any.

They're protected in Michigan and Ohio and I'm pretty sure those are the only states in the U.S. where they live.
I remember seeing morphs too, but the person who had them resided in Ohio. Also, they never had much of a following, even when they weren't protected.

Tim

Third Eye

>>They're protected in Michigan and Ohio and I'm pretty sure those are the only states in the U.S. where they live.
>>I remember seeing morphs too, but the person who had them resided in Ohio. Also, they never had much of a following, even when they weren't protected.
>>
>>Tim
>>
>>Third Eye

They're protected in Ontario too, making them protected throughout their range, I believe. There may be some grandfathered in, however. The western fox snakes aren't protected and they are very nice animals also.

TC

"There may be some grandfathered in, however."
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You're right Terry, there are three or four captive breeding populations that I know of. Mine are from one of those.
Apparently, they are not on a federal CITES list, so folks outside OH and MI just need to insure that their CB hatchlings are from one of the grandfathered populations.
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Regards, Bill McGighan

There is a small handfull of us who breed Easterns.

I know of no morphs for Easterns, but we've seen amelanistic Westerns from time to time.
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Regards, Bill McGighan

Those are really nice. I assume they are Easterns. The Easterns are generally lighter in overall color than Westerns, correct? How much does a pair of hatchlings usually go for? I understand they need a pretty cold winter cooling to breed. I live in Florida. Any issues with keeping them in a pretty warm climate (besides getting them cold enough to breed)?

Mike

Hey, Mike,
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"I assume they are Easterns."
Yes sir, these are Easterns.
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"The Easterns are generally lighter in overall color than Westerns, correct?"
Mostly, but there are some very light Westerns, and there can be quite a bit of variability.
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These two 2005 posts may help. Very generally, Easterns grow larger and heavier but the blotch count between the head and the vent is the most obvious difference with joined blotches sometimes adding to confusion.
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Conant/Collins/Johnson say that Westerns average 41 dorsal blotches and Easterns average 34. Key word here is average.
Tennant says that Westerns have 32 to 52 and average 41 dorsal blotches and Easterns have 28 to 43 and average 34.
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http://forums.kingsnake.com/viewarch.php?id=777489,780216&key=2005
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http://forums.kingsnake.com/viewarch.php?id=777489,780217&key=2005
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How much does a pair of hatchlings usually go for? Anywhere from $45 to $90 each.
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I understand they need a pretty cold winter cooling to breed. I live in Florida.
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I kept them fine in the air conditioning when I was in North Orlando. The adults do much better at 75 – 78 F than 78 – 82 F.
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Some general comments.
There is some conventional wisdom documented several places on the web that say to breed them, you need 3 - 4 months of brumation at 50 – 55 F. I am not here to challenge this.
But….
This is my story:
I have kept them in a bottom cage in a room that has stratified temps (no circulating fan) for several years. They are typically around 76 F with no heat strip, but in some years, I had a small, halogen, basking light; some years not.
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Mine are brumated along with Grays, Blacks, Yellows, Everglades, Texans, Deckert’s, GulfHammock, Bairds, Subocs, Triaspis, Emory’s, “intermontanas”, Kisatchies, Corns, alternas, annulatas, and Western Foxes in the same room at the same temp (58-60F), for the same time (2 ½ months). All above are kept in communal cages as pairs or trios (no separation of males and females). All old enough, breed every year with no problems.
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IMHO
The two best things you can give E Foxes are spatial cages (they are active and often you see captives with damaged rostral shields), and lots of food. They are eating machines and fast to digest. I feed small rats.
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Regards, Bill McGighan

Those are good-looking snakes! I saw hypo Easterns advertised once, but it was a long time ago, before the internet was as popular as it is now, so I never saw any pics of them.

Tim

Thanks, Tim,
As I said I haven't seen E Fox morphs, but check out this Western on Don Soderberg's website:
www.cornsnakes.net/photogallery_showpic.php?pgID=1075&uType=Update&framewidth=1010&frameheight=32&res=&wOpt=

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Regards, Bill McGighan

I've seen pics of a hypo eastern in the wild before but I still can't wait for those "normals" to show up at my door tomorrow! Jerry

I just came across this thread. If you look in the "rat snake" photos here on kingsnake, and search for the keyword "fox", three pictures of hypomelanistic fox snakes come up.

Good find on those hypo Westerns.
I hope the person finds who puchased them.
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Regards, Bill McGighan

I was researching snake hunting in "Canada" when I came across a picture of an "EASTERN" fox snake. needless to say it was a beautifull subadult that someone came across while hiking. the snake was said to be left alone, so who knows, it may still be out there somewere. it's blotches were a deep lavender with a bright yellow under color, and a deep orange colored head.

I got a nice pair of Easterns a while back from Bart Bruno. They were stunning, however, they need cooler temps than can easily be provided down here in Charlotte, NC during the summers, so mine didnt seem to be that happy, and did not eat well as a result during the summer. So those of us who live south of MD might have problems with keeping things cool enough for them unless you keep air conditioning in your snake room.
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