Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have been keeping retics and childrens pythons for a long long time and I just cant get over the Hondos. Tinley park NARBC is coming in 10 days and i am getting some Hondos! I just need some help with the genetics side..

im going to ramble off what i think i know and hope you guys can confirm it for me.

albino (sipmple res)
hypo (simple res)
anery (simple res)
Ghost (Hypo & Anery)
Hybino (Hypo $ albino)
Snow (albino & anery)
pearl (albino, hypo $ anery)

extreme hypo (hypo x hypo?)

Is there more?

I would love to see some pics of the extreme hypos and some really nice ghosts. is there an extreme hypo ghost?

Serveral forum members have tons of great info on the questions you are asking, however Joe's website has loads of picturs as well thoroughbredexotics.com
But if you look around you will find loads more...

Hope this helps,
-----
Jason A.
"Long time Herper, first year Breeder `07."
My 2008 Care Sheet & The BRB Stats. Username: brb@kingsnake.com

I still think its:

xtreme is a 3 phenotype complex including

Hypo-original line
hypo x lav albino-most common extreme
lav albino-seperate gene

should be possible but with the variability and the closeness of the genes I think its been described wrong. My opinion, laugh if you want, but another generation should prove out my theory. BTW I am hoping Shannon tried backcrossing to test my theory...

and I agree with you Jeff!

-Rusty

im still lost? so the hypo is one morph then there the extreme hypo?

which could be a lav-albino hypo? weres the lav albinos? or are they the T instead of T-? let me know.... what about hypo x hypo breedings? that leaves you with all hypos then?

so xtreme x hypo will give you hypos and extremes? so is the extreme a codom? or is the ressive amplified?

OK, a little slower this time for those new to this theory:
When the xtreme was first found(and before it was named), to me it always looked like a lavender albino. Now the lav albinos known in other species....most people couldnt see a exact "fit". And this gene was originally found WITHIN hypo x hypo breedings....some thought it was codom(I still dont know about that in colubrids-Rainer excluded), most thought it was a SUPER form.
Now hypo x hypo does NOT mean all offspring are hypo."Normal" x "normal" doesnt make all "normal" every time right?? Inbreeding to produce morphs is the perfect place for an additional gene(or 19)to piggyback as there are simply that many more chances to line up like genes. Exmaple: it might take 500 clutches to produce the first hypo. But breed hypo x het to produce more hypos(F2). Breed F2 x F2 to sell your offspring(F3). Breed those together and you have increased the likelihood EXPONENTIALLY (x factor 4)of producing a new gene. Now lets say the "new gene" is lavender albino(T is a test done on a single line of lav albino ratsnakes years ago...same thing).
Milks are extremely variable, and ALL extreme hypos have been produced from hypo lines so the chance that they are indeed double morphs is extremely high. The way to tell is to outcross/backcross them to unrelated stock(good luck finding completely unrelated stock)and look at the ratios of morphs to normals through several breedings. Most who have the high priced morphs dont like to back cross, they like to push things forward and jam more and more genes into their lines. But Shannon B told me he was going to give it a shot...
Breed a extreme hypo to a het for nothing will either produce hets(if its a single gene)or double hets(2 genes). Breed these offspring back to each other and single genes should produce 1/4 (25%) extreme hypos. If they are DBL hets though they will produce 42% (7/16) morphs...including the highest probability of lavender albinos(3/16). Backcrossing like this might be the only way produce a discernable lavender albino and to breed out the hypo line.

Jeff, Yes I am working on it and actually going backwords but at the same time I am also moving forward on all my morphs etc..for the hobby.
Anyway,you said "Now hypo x hypo does NOT mean all offspring are hypo" and I have never seen this.Who do you know that has bred hypo x hypo and not got all hypos? If you are talking about two different starins of hypo then yes that could be true.

Anyway, I have a handfull of snakes this year that I am starting to raise up to breed together and they are all normal (wild type) looking but have a extreme father or mother or whatever I used.Time will tell but I am going to try and see what the makeup is of the extreme outside of hypo if there is any at all.
Its probably a waste of time but I have all the time in the world to play with this.

p.s. the snake pictured here isn't a hypo BTW he is het for hypo only so what is it?

L8r Shannon

Hey Shan-man, whats up? I am gonna have to simply take a step back and refer everyone to you on this issue,lmao! I am sure you or someone has had a hypo(het for anery)x hypo(het for anery)=GHOST right?? My point was that its becuase hypo and lav albino are relatively close that they get confused. If the anery gene was never found before but suddenly popped out in the hypo line that you would get ghosts a long time before you get anerys.....you know this but I have been trying to explain it ad infinitem.

Then there are the stupid freaks that show up randomly....as a scientist that really bugs me!