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Did a little looking around on my use of the term Genotype. The assertion that I used genotype only means the whole taco is off base. Here is the Wikipedia definition of genotype (note the underlined part):

"The genotype is the genetic constitution of a cell, an organism, or an individual (i.e. the specific allele makeup of the individual) usually with reference to a specific character under consideration."

Here is how Webster's defines it (again note the underlined part):

"all or part of the genetic constitution of an individual or group"

From this you can see that using the term in reference to single or multiple morph characteristics is not irregular. Granted genotype "can" be used more broadly but when referring to an organism's full genetic makeup, genome is the more correct term.

During the next class we shall discuss "Testostrogen"

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Darwin Rocks!

I think I was searching "modes of inheritance" at the same time you were searching that.
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Your usage was this, you said after one clutch you would know the genotype. The context was with possible hets. Which is totally in error, you would not.

If you were referring to a simple het/homo like albinism then you should use those terms, not confuse folks with some fancy dancy term like genotype.

You WERE discussing "possible hets" which have a 75% chance of not occurring. Or better yet, a 25% chance of being expressed. Which in reality means, you could have many clutches without ever expressing a het to het character. Muchless a possible het to possible het character. In this case, it would take many many clutches to express that genotype specific character.

Again, even using dominate/recessive terms, one clutch may not determine if that character is present.

And sir, this is not about testosterone, Its about the context you use that term. Cheers

And even with produced phenotypes you still may not know the genotype.

There are a couple cases of Applegate Albino Gophers popping out normals on occasion - My suspicion is that one of the founding stock was het for a different type of albino that is very similar in appearance but a different gene pair, or there could be more than just simple Mendel genetics at play.

But I use genotype the same way - to describe to the simple morph gene pairs that I think I know.

Motley is an interesting one in corns - you can have motley phenotype homo motley genotype, motley phenotype but a heterozygous motley/stripe genotype, normal het motley, normal het stripe, and some of the newly discovered traits *may* be on the motley locus as well. What people use to think was a codom expression of motley/stripe has been fairly well proven now to just be variation within motley, and homo motley can have a lot of striping going on.

When I breed my motley to a normal homo WT at the motley locus, I won't know the genotype of the young because I don't know if he is homo motley genotype or if he is motley het stripe genotype - so the young will be het on the motley locus but I don't know het for stripe or motley.

At some point I am going to breed him to a homo stripe to find out.

One of his siblings looks suspiciously like a striped to me.

But this is the king forum.

-=-

The one thing that bugs the hell out of me though is when people use the word het with a double morph. IE - normal het blizzard.

het can only refer to one gene pair, not two. Normal double het amel and hyper is better.
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Arrrggg!
It's like Shalom, but for pirates.
- iCarly

Its another good Italian name!

"Your usage was this, you said after one clutch you would know the genotype. The context was with possible hets. Which is totally in error, you would not.

Really now? I simply said test breed. Perhaps you inferr too much. Here is my post in its entirety:

"The only way I see to eliminate het genes from a project is once you have the desired PHENOTYPE to test breed it to determine its GENOTYPE. If the animal proves to carry genes that you do not desire eliminate it from your breeding program"

I see nothing about one clutch or any foolishness about conducting test breedings with two possible hets.

This is not a dance Frank. I know what I said and did not say and so does everyone else. I didn't start this thread to counter you and get deleated again. I posted simply to set the record straight on how the term genotype might be properly used.
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Darwin Rocks!

Some "dance". Reminds me of the kind of dance you do when you step on a nail(or in your case, two nails lol)

Your right, I am not here to fight with you. Its just your usage of terms thats odd, TO ME.

If you read your post, to "test breed" is again unclear and infers one breeding. If you meant to test breed over a many clutches(years) to express the genotype, you should have said that. But you did not.

Again, to understand the entire genotype would take more then forever with kingsnakes. Even with color and pattern. If your talking about one simple trait like albinism, then use the simple commonly used terms that are much clearer.

I also understand that you can use any term you want in a tiny hobbyist click. But then, you should expect to be questioned when others read your posts. Others like me that do not understand your usage.

So no, its not about you, I am just questioning your usage of those terms, I do so, because it differs greatly from what I am use to(talking to biologists)

There are many things we can discuss, one would be, why would you use "genotype" in the situation you are using it. In that situation, its not very accurate or definitive. Cheers

First I provided two definitions one of which it THE definitive document on the English language. Both support my usage yet throught your last post you continue to insist that I used it incorrectly. Here's the deal Frank, your understanding of the terminology is narrow and incomplete.

Second, because I did not go into the specifics of test breeding doesn't give you the right to misquote me and declare me "totally wrong".
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Darwin Rocks!

It appears to me, your forget the context and you want to use a term, just because you can. Well, you can, but its not all that helpful. Hmmmmmmmm you were trying to be helpful weren't you????

I am only trying to understand why you use that term, so I question you. After all, that is what this board is all about. To question what you do not understand. And surely its very apparent I do not understand you. I do not understand why you would use just a broad term like genotype, in a very specific situation concerning "possible het traits" The genotype would include those possibilities, plus so very much more.

Again by test breeding you recieve ALWAYS phenotypes. To understand the genotype, would take thousands of phenotypes. Is anyone actually going to produce thousands just to get some understanding of a captive snakes genotype? Cheers

"I am only trying to understand why you use that term, so I question you."

Here's my answer. I used the term the way I did because it is a proper use. If you can not comprehend this, I am sorry. I've tried, you'll have to figure it out without me.
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Darwin Rocks!