Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I went out of town for 5 days and came home to 27 new mouths to feed yesterday. I think Bailey probably dropped them on Sunday, which would be exactly one year from producing her last litter. She shed twice with her first one on May 25. Her last meal was a small rat on June 6. There were no still born and only one slug when I found them. There is one premie that was born with one eye and is only 11 grams, it's in the last picture with a normal size sibling. Dan

Congrats!

It looks like there may be some (or even a lot) are eclipse with their crescents.
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Mike

7.13 BRB
1.2 Spotted Python
1.0 Cal. King

Thanks Mike. There are a few with nice eclipse's and probably a few more that I would call partial eclipse's.

Dan

Congrats on the nice litter. And like Mike already noticed, I see eclipse's like mom.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

What was your temp setting for gestation?

Your May 25th shed - September 28th delivery puts gestation at POS + 126 days. I strongly believe temps play a crucial role in gestational timespan. Based on the limited data I have so far, I'd place your temp at 80/81 ??
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Dave, I think you are probably right about temps playing a role in gestation times and you might be right about my temps.
Bailey and Aurora are both kept in 4 foot long vision cages in a stack with with one temperature controller. With the temperature gradient and both snakes pushing their hides around it makes it difficult to keep them at a specific temperature. The middle cage is probably a little warmer also. I remember seeing them at temperatures of 79 or 80 up to 84 or 85. I just didn't pay that much attention to the temps as long as it was in that range. Maybe next year I will put a brick on top of their hides to keep them in one spot. It would be nice to reduce the gestation times, get babies earlier and get the moms feeding earlier also. Dan

Please don't do that let them thermoregulate, you got optimal results with few stills etc...

What ever your are doing stick with it.

>>Dave, I think you are probably right about temps playing a role in gestation times and you might be right about my temps.
>> Bailey and Aurora are both kept in 4 foot long vision cages in a stack with with one temperature controller. With the temperature gradient and both snakes pushing their hides around it makes it difficult to keep them at a specific temperature. The middle cage is probably a little warmer also. I remember seeing them at temperatures of 79 or 80 up to 84 or 85. I just didn't pay that much attention to the temps as long as it was in that range. Maybe next year I will put a brick on top of their hides to keep them in one spot. It would be nice to reduce the gestation times, get babies earlier and get the moms feeding earlier also. Dan
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=========================================================
Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
=========================================================
Thanks,

I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.

Hey, it happens. Frank does get it right once in a while. A couple of degrees either way could make for some very different results. Getting big litters with low stillborn and slug numbers is as good as it gets.

>>Please don't do that let them thermoregulate, you got optimal results with few stills etc...
>>
>>What ever your are doing stick with it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>Dave, I think you are probably right about temps playing a role in gestation times and you might be right about my temps.
>>>> Bailey and Aurora are both kept in 4 foot long vision cages in a stack with with one temperature controller. With the temperature gradient and both snakes pushing their hides around it makes it difficult to keep them at a specific temperature. The middle cage is probably a little warmer also. I remember seeing them at temperatures of 79 or 80 up to 84 or 85. I just didn't pay that much attention to the temps as long as it was in that range. Maybe next year I will put a brick on top of their hides to keep them in one spot. It would be nice to reduce the gestation times, get babies earlier and get the moms feeding earlier also. Dan
>>-----
>>=========================================================
>> Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
>>=========================================================
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Frank Roberts
>>
>>
>>
>>I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.

They are pushing their hides to the the optimal temperatures

>>Hey, it happens. Frank does get it right once in a while. A couple of degrees either way could make for some very different results. Getting big litters with low stillborn and slug numbers is as good as it gets.
>>
>>
>>>>Please don't do that let them thermoregulate, you got optimal results with few stills etc...
>>>>
>>>>What ever your are doing stick with it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>Dave, I think you are probably right about temps playing a role in gestation times and you might be right about my temps.
>>>>>> Bailey and Aurora are both kept in 4 foot long vision cages in a stack with with one temperature controller. With the temperature gradient and both snakes pushing their hides around it makes it difficult to keep them at a specific temperature. The middle cage is probably a little warmer also. I remember seeing them at temperatures of 79 or 80 up to 84 or 85. I just didn't pay that much attention to the temps as long as it was in that range. Maybe next year I will put a brick on top of their hides to keep them in one spot. It would be nice to reduce the gestation times, get babies earlier and get the moms feeding earlier also. Dan
>>>>-----
>>>>=========================================================
>>>> Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
>>>>=========================================================
>>>>Thanks,
>>>>
>>>>Frank Roberts
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.
-----
=========================================================
Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
=========================================================
Thanks,

I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.

>>They are pushing their hides to the the optimal temperatures
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>Hey, it happens. Frank does get it right once in a while. A couple of degrees either way could make for some very different results. Getting big litters with low stillborn and slug numbers is as good as it gets.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>Please don't do that let them thermoregulate, you got optimal results with few stills etc...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>What ever your are doing stick with it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Dave, I think you are probably right about temps playing a role in gestation times and you might be right about my temps.
>>>>>>>> Bailey and Aurora are both kept in 4 foot long vision cages in a stack with with one temperature controller. With the temperature gradient and both snakes pushing their hides around it makes it difficult to keep them at a specific temperature. The middle cage is probably a little warmer also. I remember seeing them at temperatures of 79 or 80 up to 84 or 85. I just didn't pay that much attention to the temps as long as it was in that range. Maybe next year I will put a brick on top of their hides to keep them in one spot. It would be nice to reduce the gestation times, get babies earlier and get the moms feeding earlier also. Dan
>>>>>>-----
>>>>>>=========================================================
>>>>>> Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
>>>>>>=========================================================
>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Frank Roberts
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.
>>-----
>>=========================================================
>> Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
>>=========================================================
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Frank Roberts
>>
>>
>>
>>I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.
-----
=========================================================
Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
=========================================================
Thanks,

I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.

>>>>They are pushing their hides to the the optimal temperatures
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>Hey, it happens. Frank does get it right once in a while. A couple of degrees either way could make for some very different results. Getting big litters with low stillborn and slug numbers is as good as it gets.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Please don't do that let them thermoregulate, you got optimal results with few stills etc...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>What ever your are doing stick with it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Dave, I think you are probably right about temps playing a role in gestation times and you might be right about my temps.
>>>>>>>>>> Bailey and Aurora are both kept in 4 foot long vision cages in a stack with with one temperature controller. With the temperature gradient and both snakes pushing their hides around it makes it difficult to keep them at a specific temperature. The middle cage is probably a little warmer also. I remember seeing them at temperatures of 79 or 80 up to 84 or 85. I just didn't pay that much attention to the temps as long as it was in that range. Maybe next year I will put a brick on top of their hides to keep them in one spot. It would be nice to reduce the gestation times, get babies earlier and get the moms feeding earlier also. Dan
>>>>>>>>-----
>>>>>>>>=========================================================
>>>>>>>> Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
>>>>>>>>=========================================================
>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Frank Roberts
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.
>>>>-----
>>>>=========================================================
>>>> Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
>>>>=========================================================
>>>>Thanks,
>>>>
>>>>Frank Roberts
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.
>>-----
>>=========================================================
>> Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
>>=========================================================
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Frank Roberts
>>
>>
>>
>>I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.

>>>>>>They are pushing their hides to the the optimal temperatures
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Hey, it happens. Frank does get it right once in a while. A couple of degrees either way could make for some very different results. Getting big litters with low stillborn and slug numbers is as good as it gets.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Please don't do that let them thermoregulate, you got optimal results with few stills etc...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>What ever your are doing stick with it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Dave, I think you are probably right about temps playing a role in gestation times and you might be right about my temps.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bailey and Aurora are both kept in 4 foot long vision cages in a stack with with one temperature controller. With the temperature gradient and both snakes pushing their hides around it makes it difficult to keep them at a specific temperature. The middle cage is probably a little warmer also. I remember seeing them at temperatures of 79 or 80 up to 84 or 85. I just didn't pay that much attention to the temps as long as it was in that range. Maybe next year I will put a brick on top of their hides to keep them in one spot. It would be nice to reduce the gestation times, get babies earlier and get the moms feeding earlier also. Dan
>>>>>>>>>>-----
>>>>>>>>>>=========================================================
>>>>>>>>>> Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
>>>>>>>>>>=========================================================
>>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Frank Roberts
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.
>>>>>>-----
>>>>>>=========================================================
>>>>>> Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
>>>>>>=========================================================
>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Frank Roberts
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.
>>>>-----
>>>>=========================================================
>>>> Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
>>>>=========================================================
>>>>Thanks,
>>>>
>>>>Frank Roberts
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.
-----
=========================================================
Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
=========================================================
Thanks,

I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.

Frank, I really don't think they are moving their hides to thermoregulate. The hides are so lite that they can't move past them or under them with out moving them. Besides, Aurora had the same set up. She had 17 babies but she also had 2 still born and at least a dozen slugs.
Interestingly, I wasn't going to breed them this year so I didn't start cooling them until a month before I introduced the male to them and I only got 5 females out of Auroras litter. Last year I bought Bailey from a pet store in February and introduced my male to her 3 weeks later. Neither of them were cooled for more than 3 weeks and I only got 4 females out of a litter of 15. Aurora and my male were cooled all winter the year before when she produced 28, I didn't sex them until I only had 14 left but 7 of them were females. I havn't gotten around to checking the sexes in this last litter yet but I'm starting to wonder if a short cooling cycle leads to a high percentage of males.

Dan

Another data point for your theory - my brother keeps his pair of BRBs together year round, didn't do any intentional cooling whatsoever, thus didn't particularly expect breeding/babies at all, and ended up with a small litter (14) where 5 were male, 8 were female, and one they were unsure of when they sexed them.

That data would at least not contradict your idea. You'll need a lot more data points before you have a statistically significant sample size, but at least nobody has come up with directly contradictory data so far.
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0.1 Albino Leopard Gecko - Tigger
0.1 Crested Gecko - Pooh-Bear

Kingsnake forums really need an edit post function...
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0.1 Albino Leopard Gecko - Tigger
0.1 Crested Gecko - Pooh-Bear

Thanks for the info. I probably couldn't collect much data on short cooling periods but Dave or Jeff might be able to tell us if they have had any male heavy litters with normal cooling?

Dan

Had a 10.5 this year but IMO that's within normal statistical variability. Overall with 162 babies born (157 sexed) I'm at 74.83 or 47% male. Pretty close to even.

Last year with a cooler gestational cycle, I had longer gestational periods but had a heavier female outcome. 101 total babies 41.60 or 41% male.

I run my cooling cycle about 2 1/2 months.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

I find it hard to believe the duration of the cooling period has any effect on the paternity of the young. The amount of viable ova produced perhaps. No one knows how much cycling is needed or if any is needed.

A certain amount of cycling will be produced even without trying so even if you don't cycle, maybe you did enough to get a viable outcome.

>>Had a 10.5 this year but IMO that's within normal statistical variability. Overall with 162 babies born (157 sexed) I'm at 74.83 or 47% male. Pretty close to even.
>>
>>Last year with a cooler gestational cycle, I had longer gestational periods but had a heavier female outcome. 101 total babies 41.60 or 41% male.
>>
>>I run my cooling cycle about 2 1/2 months.
>>-----
>>Thanks,
>>
>>
>>Dave Colling
>>
>>www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com
>>
>>
>>
>>0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
>>0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)
>>
>>LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
>>26.49 BRB
>>20.21 BCI
>>And those are only the breeders
>>
>>lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

-----
=========================================================
Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
=========================================================
Thanks,

I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.

As far as I know the sex of the neonates is determined genetically by the female, but it would not surprise me if Temperature Dependent Sex Determination existed in snakes.

My opinion would be that any snake that can produce a viable outcome in a broad range of temps may utilize TSD. But lets say the Reticulated and or Burmese Python that has the ability to keep their eggs within a narrow range ( outside this narrow range egg death occurs) probably would not utilize TSD. Then we have the Ball Python, their eggs can hatch with quite a variable temp range, so maybe they may or can use TSD.

As far as I know and have read paternity is a genetic trait in all snakes and some chromosomes have been discovered/ identified to validate this. But I do not believe in a concrete form of science. There is a lot we don't know.

I believe BRB's are a species that could fall into the possible range according to viable outcomes at varying temps to perhaps utilize TSD.

Some reptiles (lizards) I believe can utilize both genetic and TSD within the species. So anything is possible.

But before anything is fertilized I find it highly unlikely that the cooling period plays a role in paternity, but it may.

Who knows ???????????

>>I find it hard to believe the duration of the cooling period has any effect on the paternity of the young. The amount of viable ova produced perhaps. No one knows how much cycling is needed or if any is needed.
>>
>>A certain amount of cycling will be produced even without trying so even if you don't cycle, maybe you did enough to get a viable outcome.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>Had a 10.5 this year but IMO that's within normal statistical variability. Overall with 162 babies born (157 sexed) I'm at 74.83 or 47% male. Pretty close to even.
>>>>
>>>>Last year with a cooler gestational cycle, I had longer gestational periods but had a heavier female outcome. 101 total babies 41.60 or 41% male.
>>>>
>>>>I run my cooling cycle about 2 1/2 months.
>>>>-----
>>>>Thanks,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Dave Colling
>>>>
>>>>www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
>>>>0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)
>>>>
>>>>LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
>>>>26.49 BRB
>>>>20.21 BCI
>>>>And those are only the breeders
>>>>
>>>>lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats
>>
>>
>>-----
>>=========================================================
>> Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
>>=========================================================
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Frank Roberts
>>
>>
>>
>>I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.

-----
=========================================================
Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
=========================================================
Thanks,

I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.

I got 3 clutches from a Texas Rat Snake that was not hibernated resulting in 9. Then 10. Then 9 neonates being produced. The Texas Rat snake snakes never have hibernated and breed in the spring and feed all winter long. They are probably subjected to slightly cooler temps in the winter but my snake room where they are kept stays almost the same year round but goes down to 70 at night in the dead of winter for half the day and up to 86 as well. I successful bred a specie of python,boa, and Colubrid in the same snake room. They are however kept at different temps within the room. The Colubrid that bred didn't hit 70 even at night. The Boa and Python specie did hit the 70 mark for sure. Balls hit 68 on occasion.

>>As far as I know the sex of the neonates is determined genetically by the female, but it would not surprise me if Temperature Dependent Sex Determination existed in snakes.
>>
>>My opinion would be that any snake that can produce a viable outcome in a broad range of temps may utilize TSD. But lets say the Reticulated and or Burmese Python that has the ability to keep their eggs within a narrow range ( outside this narrow range egg death occurs) probably would not utilize TSD. Then we have the Ball Python, their eggs can hatch with quite a variable temp range, so maybe they may or can use TSD.
>>
>>As far as I know and have read paternity is a genetic trait in all snakes and some chromosomes have been discovered/ identified to validate this. But I do not believe in a concrete form of science. There is a lot we don't know.
>>
>>I believe BRB's are a species that could fall into the possible range according to viable outcomes at varying temps to perhaps utilize TSD.
>>
>>Some reptiles (lizards) I believe can utilize both genetic and TSD within the species. So anything is possible.
>>
>>But before anything is fertilized I find it highly unlikely that the cooling period plays a role in paternity, but it may.
>>
>>Who knows ???????????
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>I find it hard to believe the duration of the cooling period has any effect on the paternity of the young. The amount of viable ova produced perhaps. No one knows how much cycling is needed or if any is needed.
>>>>
>>>>A certain amount of cycling will be produced even without trying so even if you don't cycle, maybe you did enough to get a viable outcome.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>Had a 10.5 this year but IMO that's within normal statistical variability. Overall with 162 babies born (157 sexed) I'm at 74.83 or 47% male. Pretty close to even.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Last year with a cooler gestational cycle, I had longer gestational periods but had a heavier female outcome. 101 total babies 41.60 or 41% male.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I run my cooling cycle about 2 1/2 months.
>>>>>>-----
>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Dave Colling
>>>>>>
>>>>>>www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
>>>>>>0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
>>>>>>26.49 BRB
>>>>>>20.21 BCI
>>>>>>And those are only the breeders
>>>>>>
>>>>>>lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-----
>>>>=========================================================
>>>> Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
>>>>=========================================================
>>>>Thanks,
>>>>
>>>>Frank Roberts
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.
>>
>>
>>-----
>>=========================================================
>> Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
>>=========================================================
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Frank Roberts
>>
>>
>>
>>I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.

-----
=========================================================
Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
=========================================================
Thanks,

I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all. I think the "cycle" is beneficial to many to induce breeding. But as to affecting the sexual outcome, don't see how that would work.

On the other hand, I do wonder if gestational temps may have something to do with the survival of one sex ova over another. Specifically, cooler gestational temps causing a higher slug count and a higher female outcome, the slugs were males? Just speculation at this point in time and may be different for individual females.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Well here are some stats for you.

Auroura's litter 12 male, 5 female, 2 stillborn, and atleast 12 slugs.

I just sexed Bailey's litter, 18 male, 9 female, there were no still born and I only found 1 slug.

Auroura's litter would suggest that the slugs were mostly female, but that doesn't explain Baily's high male count, unless she had eaten a bunch of slugs.

That's 3 litters in a row that were very male heavy. Something seems to be happening here. If it's not the short cooling cycle, maybe it's something in the water.

Dan

I was kidding about them moving their hide boxes to thermoregulate. ( guess you don't read my posts often I am sort of a sarcastic / jokester type ).

I was against you placing bricks on them because the snakes may choose security over temperatures associated with successful gestation and parturition involving viable young being produced with low incidences of still born and or infertile ova.

Snakes like to hide and if you put the hide in a place that is not optimal they may choose to stay hidden even when temps are not optimal.

They are obviously moving them by accident but bricking them down will not help in my opinion and your current success makes that obvious. Snakes are known to have a strong inclination to hide even in their water bowls ( if no other hide is provided ) to the point of getting Necrotizing dermatitis .

I have a couple of Yellow Anacondas while they didn't get Necrotizing dermatitis they where always in their water bowls. I added some hides and they are always in them and rarely are found in their water bowls. Given a choice they prefer to stay dry most of the time. They do often defecate in their water but don't use them as "hides" any more.

Your actions could do more harm then good unless you have concrete knowledge of what temps are necessary to achieve desired results.

Temps are most certainty directly related to the outcome of pregnancy.

So I believe especially in regards to hides I would be careful when offering a situation where the snake rather feel secure then gestate her young. She has to survive to reproduce and give birth and hiding is a major part of that outside the captive environment

>>Frank, I really don't think they are moving their hides to thermoregulate. The hides are so lite that they can't move past them or under them with out moving them. Besides, Aurora had the same set up. She had 17 babies but she also had 2 still born and at least a dozen slugs.
>>Interestingly, I wasn't going to breed them this year so I didn't start cooling them until a month before I introduced the male to them and I only got 5 females out of Auroras litter. Last year I bought Bailey from a pet store in February and introduced my male to her 3 weeks later. Neither of them were cooled for more than 3 weeks and I only got 4 females out of a litter of 15. Aurora and my male were cooled all winter the year before when she produced 28, I didn't sex them until I only had 14 left but 7 of them were females. I havn't gotten around to checking the sexes in this last litter yet but I'm starting to wonder if a short cooling cycle leads to a high percentage of males.
>>
>>Dan

-----
=========================================================
Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
=========================================================
Thanks,

I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.

heavy object supported off floor by hollow object that gets moved by unthinking reptile = a recipe for inflicting a crush type injury.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

>>heavy object supported off floor by hollow object that gets moved by unthinking reptile = a recipe for inflicting a crush type injury.
>>-----
>>Thanks,
>>
>>
>>Dave Colling
>>
>>www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com
>>
>>
>>
>>0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
>>0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)
>>
>>LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
>>26.49 BRB
>>20.21 BCI
>>And those are only the breeders
>>
>>lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats
-----
=========================================================
Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
=========================================================
Thanks,

I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.

Yes, I thought about that. I wouldn't put any thing on their hides that they could knock off.

Dan

"Snakes like to hide and if you put the hide in a place that is not optimal they may choose to stay hidden even when temps are not optimal".

I agree 100%. That's why I provide 2 hides, one at the warm end and one at the cool end, with the water bowl between them. Up until two years ago I thought I was doing something wrong because I had never seen any of my snakes in the water bowl. Now I'm convinced that if a range of suitable temperatures are provided with multiple hides they will use the hides instead of the water bowl. My adults also can hide under the newspaper any where in their cage. I might add that I don't provide hides for the babies any more, they were usualy under the paper towels anyway.
The only reason I was thinking about making my hides harder to move, is because, at times the hide at the warm end gets pushed off of the heat. It doesn't happen very often, but during gestation it's not something I want.

Dan

How are you sexing them?

Not in any way implying you're doing anything wrong.

afaik there are only four known methods....

Raise em up and the ones that have babies are females. Pretty much foolproof but costly

Probe sex organs - IMO good probability of accuracy once you know how. Possible to injure animal (female) if not done correctly. Possible to get incorrect results - both sexes, either not enough preasure on a male and low insertion depth or too much preasure on a female and damage organs. (or so I've read, never done this method myself)

Pop hemipenes - also good probability of accuracy once you know how. Also possible to injure animal (again, IMO) NOT likely to incorrectly sex a female as a male.

Palpation - My prefered method. Simple, easy and IMO very accurate once you learn how and with multiple animals (a litter) easy to get experience. Possible to incorrectly sex a male as a female but not the other way around.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Palpation. Like you said, very easy once you learn how to do it.

Dan

>>I went out of town for 5 days and came home to 27 new mouths to feed yesterday. I think Bailey probably dropped them on Sunday, which would be exactly one year from producing her last litter. She shed twice with her first one on May 25. Her last meal was a small rat on June 6. There were no still born and only one slug when I found them. There is one premie that was born with one eye and is only 11 grams, it's in the last picture with a normal size sibling. Dan
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>>I went out of town for 5 days and came home to 27 new mouths to feed yesterday. I think Bailey probably dropped them on Sunday, which would be exactly one year from producing her last litter. She shed twice with her first one on May 25. Her last meal was a small rat on June 6. There were no still born and only one slug when I found them. There is one premie that was born with one eye and is only 11 grams, it's in the last picture with a normal size sibling. Dan
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Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
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Thanks,

I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.