Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My baby bearded dragon hes abour 3.5inches SVL is doing really well and loving his silkworms. I've cut back to feeding him only 4 worms a day since when I feed him all he wants to eat his belly gets huge and he poops 3 times the next day. The instruactions in Dragon Dust ICB from T-rex says to dust everyday and its designed to do so. How often should I dust my silkworms? Silkworms have a smaller surface area:volume ratio than many small crickets so should I be dusting more?

Yeah, with this supplement it is safe to dust everyday. It was developed by Sandfire Dragon Ranch and Allen Repashy. It's a good supplement.

And about the feeding, I wouldn't cut back on the amount he eats. I'd give him as much as he wants because you can't overfeed most reptiles, which will not eat when they are not hungry, unlike humans and dogs which are gorgers, that will will gorge on the food even when they are full. When your dragon gets older, his appetite will diminish because the growth rate will slow down to almost nothing, but for now, I'd keep feeding him.

I wouldn't use the product at all. It has too much vitamin A (Acetate) A better product is RepCal's Herptivite that supplies Vitamin A as Beta-Caratine which animals convert to Vitamin A as they need it so there is no risk of overdose. With RepCal you should dust one live meal a week with the multivitamin and the rest with a calcium w/D3 and no phosphorus.

Actually, the Dragon Dust is well formulated you don't get overdose. They use some vitamin A instead of all betacarotene because reptiles don't make use of betacarotene very well like mammals. That's what Allen Repashy has told me. The supplement is made from human grade natural ingredients, so you can dust as the instruction said dust everyday on the feeder. You shouldn't get an overdose due the natural ingredients they use. The excess just get worked out of the system.

Dragons can eat too much and many reptiles are gorgers, most often eaten as much as they can when food is plentiful. It isn't unusual for dragons to gorge on silkworm and other worms till the point they regurgitate them back up.

Best rule of thumb with worms is feed them one at a time giving time for your dragon to chew and swallow (keep in mind dragons have a short of 'pouch' in their throat where food often will sit before the swallow it down into the gut. Kind of like a pelican). Typically feed what they will eat in a 5-10 min period. Fresh salad can be left in the cage for snacking on between meals.

It is better to feed 2-3 times a day for young dragons (hatchlings more often but after about 5 months twice a day feedings of insects with greens available all day is good) than just a single huge meal for growing dragons. After they are a year old one insect feeding and salad is fine, tapering off to just a few insects daily or feedings several times a week for over 14 month dragons. (should be pretty much 80-90% greens daily intake of food for adults, the rest insects. Egg laying females (whether bred or not) can have more insects and extra calcium)
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PHLdyPayne

Susan Donoghue and Melissa Kaplan said most reptiles will not eat when they are not hungry unlike humans, dogs and a lot of mammals which will groge on food when it is available even when they are full. Their are some reptiles that will overeat like Savannah monitors, and Burmese python. It's hard to overfeed reptiles especially the young ones that are still growing. But some do get quite fat evidently from eating more than others even if they are the same species that are not known to groge, so you should still watch if your pet is getting fat. Being cold blooded means that they don't have to eat as much mammals, and therefore, there is no need to eat a huge meal everytime like mammals do. Examples: my male ball python will sometime go almost a year without eating during the mating season and resume feeding again in Febuary. Sometimes a crocodile can go a year without eating if it has a good meal.

Being active on these forums for over 5 years, seen many cases posted here and from my own experience, that too many silkworms feed at one sitting can cause dragons to puke them back up. Hence the suggestion to feed slowly and stop after 5 to ten minutes.

Saves on alot of wasted silkworms and stress to the dragon if prevented.
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PHLdyPayne

Thanks for all the responses. If I feed my dragon 2-3 times a day and give him as much as he eats. His tummy gets huge.. he drags it around just to walk. He doesn't look happy at the end of the day and he poops 2,3, sometimes even 4 times a day the next day. That doesn't seem healthy lol. I come from a long background of rearing chameleons and its a general consensus that obesity in reptiles is an issue, moreover growing them extremely fast can lead to more susceptibility to MBD. This may be a chameleon thing, but I dont see why it wouldn't pretain to BD's. Also feeding too many supplements is a big caution in chameleon rearing and many beginners actually OD their chameleons on vitamins and they are a lot of times detrimental. Using my biological sciences degree here, hehe, all vitamins can be toxic in high dosage especially those that are fat soluble IE Vitamin D etc. So too much supplements I worry is going to be detrimental. Of course BD's are distinct from chameleons which is why I will take your advice and dust everyday with Dragon Dust but the notion that its you can't OD on dusting because all the ingredients are natural is false.

No, it's made from ingredients that you would find naturally in food, so it won't cause OD. That's why most nutritionists will say that it is better to eat foods rich in vitamins and minerals your body needs rather than taking supplements because the vitamins and minerals you get from foods will just get worked out of your system if there are too much unlike most multivitamin tablets which will cause OD if taken too much. You can use other brand, but you can't use as much as the Dragon Dust. Feeder insect have lousy calcium to phosphorous ratio and don't have all the nutrient your beardie needs, so that is why it suggested to dust everday to balance out the nutritional value. With other supplement you may need to cut back on the number of days you actually dust, but you still need to dust the preys lightly with calcium about 5 times a week and lightly with multivitamin 2-3 times a week. Another important thing you need to do is the gutload your feeder insects with nutritious food so when your bearded dragon eat them, they will get some those food, too, and it improves the nutritional value of the preys.

You are trying to offset the bad CAH ratio. So you only need Calcium to do that, not Vitamin A. Vitamin A is fine in a less often supplement.

Even the human stuff, like Centrum, has vitamin A, too, not just betacorotene because it's harder for your body to make use of it unlike vitamin A. This is especially true for reptiles which have even tougher time converting betacrotene to vitamin A.

It isn't as hard to OD on vitamins/minerals by eating foods that naturally have these vitamins and minerals as only so much can be consumed during the day (due to volume a stomach can hold and speed of digestion) However, fat solvable vitamins can still be OD's on even if their source is all natural. These do not pass through the system as waste, when the body uses all it needs every day.

Calcium without phosphrous should be given daily or several times a week depending on age of the dragon. During the first 4 months every feeding is idea as dragons grow fast and need calcium to ensure they don't suffer from not enough calcium. As they grow older this can be cut back to dusting once a day then a couple times a week till they are full grown (roughly at 14 months) then the occasional dusting is all that is needed as most should get all the calcium they need from the greens they eat. Egg laying females (whether the eggs are fertile or not) should get more calcium dustings than males as they need that extra calcium to properly shell eggs.

Multivitamins, once or twice a week for young dragons, a couple times a month for adults is fine. The main reason to give multivitamins to reptiles is because in captivity we are unable to provide the same variety of insects/plant matter dragons would eat in the wild. Not to mention the same kinds. I highly doubt collard greens and dandelions grow in Australia in the wild. To be honest, I don't have a clue what sort of plants and shrubs grow in the habitat the common bearded dragon is found (inland bearded dragons) nor what sort of insect life. So we use multivitamins to compensate for missing nutrients in their diets and what we can give them, due to limitations of our area. Not all stores carry the greens recommended, such as collards, endive, dandelions etc. Or a variety of insects, superworms, butterworms, silkworms etc.
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PHLdyPayne

That's what I was told by the people on the Allen Repashy forum which have used his supplement for geckos with great success. They were able produce more eggs of the harder to breed day gecko species by using the product called Calcium Plus, which is also developed by Allen Repashy, but marketed by T-Rex. I have seen nothing but good review from people who have used his products.

Unfortunately, we're on opposite sides of the spectrum as I have only heard bad things about this product. Obviously, the developer will only say good things about their product just as Zilla says Crushed Walnut Shells are the preferred substrate for BD's.

The original poster will just have to make their own decision. Have you heard anything bad about RepCal products? I never have.