Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Alright I would like everyone to please give me reasons not to keep all of my male breeders in large community living spaces thank you for your responses. thank you

as in all your males live in 1 tank?
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~Sober Serpents~
www.freewebs.com/soberserpents
Corns, Creamsicles, A Black Rat, A pair of Leucistic Black Rat X Leucistic Texas Rat Intergrades, Thayeri, Cal Kings, A Jungle Corn, Ball Pythons, Leopard Geckos, Green Anoles, 2 Snapping Turtles, a White Cheeked Mud Turtle, an Eastern Box Turtle, a Bearded Dragon, an Adult Rescue Iguana, and A Baby Iguana

That would create a stressful situation, as corn snakes are solitary by nature. This stress could cause the snakes to not eat and/or regurgitate what they do eat. As a pet owner/breeder you assume the responsibility of giving your animals the best possible care - housing corn snakes communally is not what is best for them.

Tim

Third Eye

Hay Tim, I hope you read this. did that spankin' bloodred breed this year? you know my fondness for red, and you post the pictures a lot. or I just key in on them when I see them,

Well, just wondering if they were workign for ya.
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

Is this really a serious question because you have got to be kidding.

1...stress on each individual snake by being in close quarters with other snakes who are viewed as rivals for food and territory.

2...You have to seperate them to feed them. DON'T feed corns together. Two will grab the same mouse and start swallowing. One will go over the top of the other and KEEP SWALLOWING.

3...How are you planning on keeping your records straight on each snake? Who just shed? Who didn't eat at the last feed?

4...Stop doing acid.

I laughed out loud on number 4. It was so unexpected after the three facts that preceded it.

Dave
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One man with faith equals the majority.
Thomas Jefferson

So lsd is no longer recommended
Anyway the ? came from an exhibit my friend and I seen at the milwaukee county zoo it was a 6'x8'x3' dispaly with like 3 corns an yellow rat in it it was shown as a wall in an old barn that was it.I use racks and for the record we had acouple beers but no LSD and thanks for the quick replys

When was LSD taken out of the hobby? I must have missed a memo.

I thought that's how we got those crazy color morphs.
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1.0.0 Great Plains Ratsnake
1.0.0 Corn, Lavender Aztec het for Amel
0.1.0 Black Ratsnake
0.0.1 Texas Rat (tame)
1.0.0 Broad Banded Water Snake, Hypo
1.0.0 Black Bassador Retriever
2.1.0 Godchildren, 1 Evil, 2 possible hets

And after laughing. I am AMAZED, no morph has been named after a drug. And doing it now is just cheating.

Speed Racers

Greenies GTP

Hmmm OK, I'll let you guys add some. I never did drugs. As I look at my shelf of pharmaceuticals. SIGH

And remember liquor is a drug too!
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

>>And after laughing. I am AMAZED, no morph has been named after a drug. And doing it now is just cheating.
>>
>>Speed Racers
>>
>>Greenies GTP
>>
>>Hmmm OK, I'll let you guys add some. I never did drugs. As I look at my shelf of pharmaceuticals. SIGH
>>
>>And remember liquor is a drug too!
>>-----

There might be a few who will get this one.
I could name my motley creamsicles
Orange Goofies

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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

Nope dont get it? But I can google it lol.

That baby has some intense color.
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

a lot of corns are named after food. Never understood that. Is it because Corn is a food?
Butter
Creamsicle
Blizzard (a type of fast food icecream)
candycane
carmel
cinnamon
Mocha
Pepper
Strawberry
Rootbeer

(yeah, I know some are intergrades)
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****Misty****

www.sneakyserpents.com

"The more things change, the more they remain Insane"

your very correct. My guess is it is something we can relate too. A popular item. And creates a flavorable er aire to them.

Compared to (I'll make some up) Aluminum corn, Jupiter Corn, Dirt Corn, Wallpaper Corn, Late October Vermont Silver Maple Leaf Corn, Hot Jamacian Sand Corn, ok, I'm done being silly! lol
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

rack.

18" wide makes 4 across is a 6' wide rack.
1' per tub for hieght is 8

thats 32 tubs.

And there are MUCH shorter tubs in hiegth. So that would just increase the amount of tubs.

32 snakes in 1 cage?
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

>>So lsd is no longer recommended
>>Anyway the ? came from an exhibit my friend and I seen at the milwaukee county zoo it was a 6'x8'x3' dispaly with like 3 corns an yellow rat in it it was shown as a wall in an old barn that was it.I use racks and for the record we had acouple beers but no LSD and thanks for the quick replys

That is the difference between "Display" and "Breeding". The displays are made appealing to the public so they come and visit. To look at a bunch of drawers is SOOOO not appealing.
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Cindy
PHFaust

Email Cindy

Land of the Outcasts!

>>Is this really a serious question because you have got to be kidding.
>>
>>1...stress on each individual snake by being in close quarters with other snakes who are viewed as rivals for food and territory.
>>
>>2...You have to seperate them to feed them. DON'T feed corns together. Two will grab the same mouse and start swallowing. One will go over the top of the other and KEEP SWALLOWING.
>>
>>3...How are you planning on keeping your records straight on each snake? Who just shed? Who didn't eat at the last feed?
>>
>>4...Stop doing acid.

Ok
1 through 3 I can go with
But why 4?
Take all the fun out of it? BUMMER
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

Well, you can still do it if you want to. LOL

You guys are cracking me up.

>>Alright I would like everyone to please give me reasons not to keep all of my male breeders in large community living spaces thank you for your responses. thank you

COHABITATION
A FEW THINGS TO THINK ABOUT

I feel it is best to keep snakes separate.
I know a lot of people can and do keep multiple snakes together without problems. I just feel the possible drawbacks need to be expressed.
When a person gets the experience and knowledge of each individual snake in his care, and wants to try co-habitation, it is up to them. They just need to be careful and observant enough to see and understand the subtle signs of stress in their snakes.
There can be definite drawbacks in co-habitation.
If one snake becomes sick there is a very good likelihood the other/others will get sick as well.
It may also take a while (usually too long) to determine which one is the sick one.
If one regurgitates its food you won't know which one unless you happen to get lucky and see it.
If one has a problem stool you won't know which one. Once again one may have a problem and by the time you figure out which one the other/others could end up with the same problem.
Although this is only a slight possibility, it is still a possibility and has been know to happen... one snake could eat the other. Cannibalism can and does occur with corn snakes. The smell of a prey item could trigger one snake to eat the other. Or simple hunger accompanied by a ready food source could do the same. Although uncommon, it has happened and is a possibility.
Another possibility is unwanted pregnancy. A female may become gravid and you may not have the knowledge, desire or ability to incubate the eggs, care for the hatchlings and find homes for them. With hatchlings comes added responsibility.
A lot of people rationalize by saying, "I will just put two males or two females together". That can work but mistakes can be made, especially with hatchlings. You could easily end up with a male and female.
There is also a chance of a female breeding too young or too small and becoming egg-bound. Although uncommon, it is a possibility and can happen.
With multiple snakes in the same enclosure you could easily loose them all if there happens to be an avenue of escape. Instead of losing one you could loose two or more depending on how many you decide to place together.
With multiple snakes in an enclosure, one or all of them could be stressed by the presence of the others. Stress can cause a drop in appetite and other health problems as well.
People will put multiple snakes in an enclosure and ask why one isn't eating.
When they are told it is probably due to stress caused by the other snake, the response is almost always the same "they like each other, they are always under the same hide together". Well this probably just means "that" hide or area of the tank has the optimum conditions they are looking for.
Snakes do not LIKE each other or ENJOY each other’s company.
There is no capacity for snakes to "like" or "enjoy".
I have kept multiple snakes together, without problems, but have made a choice to keep them separate. There are no good arguments as to why you should keep them together but there are several good arguments as to why you should not.
So, in my opinion, although people do it successfully I just don't think it is worth the risk.
If you decide to keep multiple snakes together, watch closely for any signs of appetite loss, shedding problems, regurgitation or “personality” changes. These could all be signs of stress.
You would also want to feed them in separate containers and give them an hour or so before putting them back together.
My 2 cents
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

Jimmy,

I knew that was coming - it was only a matter of time!

Tim

I actually think snakes do like or enjoy the fact that they are in the area of other snakes......usually the oposite sexes....but they like the snake room smell vs the living room with AC and a Fabreeze couch and an Airwick flameless candle smell......?......

I am not disagreeing per se....

but I do think they like the company in the wierd box they call home....

I house each snake seperate....that's 340 snakes right now at least....too bad I have alot less cages...LOL.........yet each is on it's own....

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This one, and "my snake loves when I handle it" I hear so often at the shop.

If a snake liked to be handled, it would crawl out of a cage to your arms. Plus reptiles just don't have that capability.

NOW, they enjoy each other. We breed a few boas at teh shop, and due to space a number get places in teh same cage. They do seem to always pile up? I've seen balls, boas and corns do it too????

And NOT a hot end of a tank, or a hide. That would not count. These are a few things I see to think they DO like to er cuddle lol.

BUT, with all the field herping, why don't you hear of a few finds of a pile of snakes?

I don;t think anyone truly unserstands all of these issues. but I would say snakes are more solitary.
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

yes they pile and fill holes in walls....water snakes here around the creek....found like 6 under one big cement slab lifted at an angle....lots of room under it ...even for me for a little bit...looked under and saw a bunch of waters in a pile almost...grabbed a small one and got big ones too all hooked together....ended up grabbing 2 small ones in one hand...(take teeth out later with knife)...and a big one with the other hand.....

around 200 yards up from that a wall with them in the cracks all near each other....

see black rats in the same rock holes...there are more than one hole....but they hang together alot...

...they like it....safety???....

....think of the thought...why snakes defecate in the cage after cleaning it?...some say to mark the territory.....
friend says the one zoo actually throws one piece of feces back in cage after cleaning to scent it?......I just hear these things can't prove them...

....LOL...

they hang together....

...maybe greedy and think they'll find more food?....the other guy knows something....
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Sounds to me more like they are using the same cover as a den site to sit the winter out in. I think that you're seeing them together more because of the protection that the shelter offers than for any other reason.

summer...along creek...not high enough to brumate....lots of rocks and hiding spots yet they were all sorta in the same areas and even under same rocks...well...huge cement slabs...

...also have seen them at like 3 and 4 at a time hanging in the bushes over the creek....they were all feeding probably...got cold and they hang uver the creek in full sun in branches...when I got near they all just jumped/fell into creek....see this more than once in water snakes....(just stick hands into creek and grab what is moving in current...get bit too ,,,LOL)...(they spit out trout...2 of them did this )...

......I think it's probably a food related thing that they hang together and also a "more eyes see predator"thing too...
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The only times I've heard of wild snakes piling up is in the case of Garter 'breeding balls' where a female gets gang banged by a whole bunch of males, and recently a friend of mine found and photographed a pile of wild baby Timber Rattlers. But they'll usually stay fairly close to the rookery area where they were born until they follow mom's pheromone trail back to the den for the winter. So I don't really know how rare that is.

>>The only times I've heard of wild snakes piling up is in the case of Garter 'breeding balls' where a female gets gang banged by a whole bunch of males, and recently a friend of mine found and photographed a pile of wild baby Timber Rattlers. But they'll usually stay fairly close to the rookery area where they were born until they follow mom's pheromone trail back to the den for the winter. So I don't really know how rare that is.

I've seen it with Nerodia.
Lift a board next to a swampy area and four or five northern water snakes under it together.
Of course it makes it easy when it's the only piece of cover near by.
I did find a couple of black rats within a few feet of each other one time. They were in an old house foundation.
I figured they were either a male and female looking for each other or just "casual acquaintances"..lol
but all in all I don't think corns are a "social" species.
I also feel that people need to get experience before housing snakes together. I would never recommend it for beginers
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

I have seen my females at breeding time. I am not so sure the female enjoy the males chasing them around the cage all day trying to... well, you get the picture.
The males may enjoy it, but hey, they are males!
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****Misty****

www.sneakyserpents.com

"The more things change, the more they remain Insane"

>>I have seen my females at breeding time. I am not so sure the female enjoy the males chasing them around the cage all day trying to... well, you get the picture.
>>The males may enjoy it, but hey, they are males!
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>>****Misty****
>>
>>www.sneakyserpents.com
>>
>>"The more things change, the more they remain Insane"
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

right...while breeding they know how many times and when to quit...they also make the male earn it....survival of the fittest...so they say on TV...????
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That's pretty much what us males spend our whole lives doing.

you said it, not me!!
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****Misty****

www.sneakyserpents.com

"The more things change, the more they remain Insane"

of us males are alike?

HOW DARE you, I,,, err ahh,, oh never mind. I surrender.
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

.
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****Misty****

www.sneakyserpents.com

"The more things change, the more they remain Insane"

they may fight alot when breeding season starts
they cannot be fed without a fight
they have one sick...they all get sick

.......think about it....you want to be in jail in the community rooms or isolation?.....really....

......now I do know a guy that kept females in 2 to a cage...but you have to hand feed each one and stand there and wait for them to finish.....you may have time.....but with 340?? snakes at the momment....I cannot wait for them to finish and wipe their mouths...

.......good luck
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Wow thank's for your feed back that was fun now can we try this again my next tread will be buttercream,creamsiscle,frostedcreams and all that