Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have 0.2 graziani pastels. I was planning on purchasing a male bumblebee from him also. Does anyone have any idea what the exact odds are of getting a killerbees when bred together. What are the odds for everything? I will not get any normals out of this deal, correct? Thanks for the info and I been focusing so much on my pied project that I forget about my side pastel project scenario. I am basically trying to figure out if I should purchase a male bumblebee or a male super pastel. Thanks and chime in on what you would do. I believe that supers and bumbles are roughly the same price. Thanks for your time and info, Manny

A killer is a super pastel spider right? One in eight should be killer bees in that pairing. good luck

Yes a killer bee is a super pastel spider, and yes you would have a 1/8 chance to get one; however on the flip side you have a 1/8 shot of getting normals as well.

hope that helps,
matt

He said pairing a pastel and a bumble bee right. Ughh,, I'm getting a headache.. ;(

DO I have this right?
pastel x spider= pastels, bumblebees and spiders?
pastel x pastel= super, pastel and normal
super to spider= killer bees, bumblebees spiders and pastels?
bumblebee X pastel= killer bees, spiders, pastels, supers and normals?

Will there be a test on this...I need a cheat sheet..LOL

Top to are right Christina!!!

But you missed a few-
pastel x spider= pastels, bumblebees and spiders?

You need to remember that pastel and spiders are heterogenous which means half of there genetics are the morph and half are normal. With this being said since both have a normal gene you have to have a possibilty for normals as well.

super to spider= killer bees, bumblebees spiders and pastels?

When you breed a super to anything all babies will carry the pastel gene which means in a super to spider there is No chance for normals, so you can't have a normal spiders;however, pastel spiders will be in that % bracket instead aka bumble bees (I know that breaks your heart).

Also remember that a killer bee is a super pastel spider. The only way to make a super pastel is if both parents carry the pastel gene, since, the spider is not a carrier you do not have the possiblity of getting killer bees in this combination.

bumblebee X pastel= killer bees, spiders, pastels, supers and normals?

In the bumble beex pastel you hit most but you skipped one. Bumble bee and pastel both have the possiblity of puting in a normal gene (this is how the normal has a possiblity) but with that being said since all genes in this combination are dom/ codoms that means that there is a chance to produce the a replica of each gene. Long story short you skipped the bumble bee.

Christina I hope this helps you under stand a little better and let me know if this is clear as mud!!!

NOW Manny, dude21361, I would like to ask you, what will you get if you breeder a super pastel to bumble bee and what will you get if you breeder a super pastel to a killer bee? See what you think the odds are post them or e-mail them to me and I will let you know how you did.

Matt

Ya know, i read about 90% of the posts on this forum, but rarely comment on them. I'm trying to get the genetics figured out for myself so that I'll be less reliant on others later. And just when I think I'm getting it figured out, I get thrown for a loop.

Anyways, a few years ago, when I was into cornsnakes, I downloaded a program called Mikes Cornsnake Progency Predictor. It worked great. Simply tell the program the genectics of the parents, and it'd give you the offsprings outcome. Cheating, I know, but is the anything similar available for ball pythons? Maybe a program or a website???

It'd be a lot easier for me to check my own calculations if I had the correct answers right in front of me...
-----
1.1 Het VPI Axanthic Ball
1.1 Het Albino Ball
0.0.2 Red Tail Boas
1.1 Room mates

I've seen Mick's Progeny Predictor for corn snakes. As far as I know, the closest thing for ball pythons is the Genetics Wizard (link below). And I do not find the GW intuitive or convenient. YMMV.

Marcel Poot's corn snake program could probably be adapted to ball pythons, if you want to spend the time. I messed around with it enough to know that I don't want to spend the time. As I recall, it did not like dominant or codominant mutants. But if you are interested, the URL is http://www.cornsnakes.nl/GenericGenWiz/MPGW.htm

Paul Hollander

Genetics Wizard

Thanks for your help. I've seen the genetics wizard before, and although its close to what I'm looking for, its just not quite there yet.

You'd think somebody would have created a better program for balls...
-----
1.1 Het VPI Axanthic Ball
1.1 Het Albino Ball
0.0.2 Red Tail Boas
1.0 Albino Nelsoni Milksnake
1.1 Room mates

Did I mention I have a headache.. FROM THIS! LOL

G wiz works great! What will help you all is to think of every codom/dom like pastels, mojaves, het red axanthics, lessers etc... as hets because they are. They are visual hets.

Also think of supers like super pastels, super mojaves, red axanthics, and super lessers etc... as homozygous because they are. Homozygous = super in codoms.

If you can get yourself to think like that G wiz will work great for you!

Hope this helps!

Keep working at it, your doing well and you will get it in time!!!!

matt

The key to these problems is to break them down into pieces that are easy to solve and then put the partial solutions together to get the full solution.

Example: Male bumblebee X female pastel

1. Determine the relevant gene pairs.

Male has a pastel mutant gene paired with a normal gene (pastel//normal). The equivalent gene pair in the female has a pastel mutant gene paired with a normal gene (pastel//normal).

Male has a spider mutant gene paired with a normal gene (spider//normal). The equivalent gene pair in the female has two normal genes (normal//normal).

2. Use a Punnett square, FOIL, or other technique to determine the result of the mating for the first gene pair. Repeat to determine the result of the mating for the second gene pair. Repeat for each additional gene pair.

pastel//normal X pastel//normal -->
1/4 pastel//pastel (= super pastel)
2/4 pastel//normal (= pastel)
1/4 normal//normal (= normal)

spider//normal X normal//normal -->
1/2 spider//normal (= spider)
1/2 normal//normal (= normal)

3. Combine the individual results to get the full result

For the pastel gene pair, all of the babies are either super pastel, pastel, or normal. For the spider gene pair, all of the babies are either spider or normal. So all of the super pastel babies are either spider or normal, all the pastel babies are either spider or normal, and all the normal babies are either spider or normal. The combination fractions are found by multiplying the individual fractions.

1/4 super pastel -- 1/2 spider = 1/8 super pastel spider (killer bee)
1/4 super pastel -- 1/2 normal = 1/8 super pastel
2/4 pastel -- 1/2 spider = 2/8 pastel spider (bumblebee)
2/4 pastel -- 1/2 normal = 2/8 pastel
1/4 normal -- 1/2 spider = 1/8 spider
1/4 normal -- 1/2 normal = 1/8 normal

Clear as mud?

Paul Hollander

I'm thinking I would just check on here if I need to know. LOL

I"m getting it just pretty slow

Off for more tylenol..