Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've had my 2:2 tigers for almost 3 years and have had 2 clutches from one female and 3 from the other female. All of the eggs have gone bad approximately 5 weeks into incubation each time. I have paired the females with both males, to try a different mate with no positive results. The eggs appear to be healthy and fertile until a rapid deterioration.

I keep my pairs together year round, but have never seen copulation. I have observed courtship however. After about 4-6 weeks of a "dry season", I increase humidity and misting to bring humidity to 65-75 percents. The temp does not fluctuate and stays at 88/79 per 12/12. Upon the increase in misting I have seen typical colubrid courtship begin... but no happy ending

As far as incubation goes, I incubate the eggs at about 84-86 in moist vermiculite with roughly a 1:1 ratio. The eggs are place in an indentation made by my thumb (just to keep them from rolling).

Since I have never seen copulation, I wonder if the eggs are even fertile, but I don't think they would look good for so long.

I have the same exact issues with my Gonyosoma. They lay eggs, but don't hatch.

Sorry for the out of focus pics, but all I had at the time was my cell phone. But you can see the eggs are healthy looking.

Bill

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2:3:5 Cornsnake
2:2:0 Red-tailed rat snake
2:2:0 Tiger rat snake
1:1:0 Carpet python
1:1:0 Mangrove snake
1:1:0 Southern copper head
1:1:0 Giant hog nose
1:1:0 Taiwan Beauty
0:2:0 Brazilian Rainbow boa
1:0:0 Yellow anaconda
1:0:0 Scrub python
1:0:0 Green tree python
1:1:0 Uni-colored cribo
1:0:0 Albino checkered garter
0:1:0 Pueblan milk snake
0:1:0 Dusky pygmy rattler
0:1:0 Twig mimic snake

1:2:9 Bearded dragon
0:0:2 Nile monitor
2:3:0 Leopard Gecko
1:2:0 Green iguana
1:1:0 Red iguana
1:1:0 Blue tongue skink

5:5:0 Eastern box turtle
1:2:0 Red eared slider
1:1:0 Map turtle
1:0:0 Painted turtle
0:0:1 Sulcata

0:0:1 Dwarf caiman

0:2:0 White-spotted bamboo shark
0:0:2 Saber tusk barracuda
0:0:1 Tiger shovel nose catfish

Opps...
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2:3:5 Cornsnake
2:2:0 Red-tailed rat snake
2:2:0 Tiger rat snake
1:1:0 Carpet python
1:1:0 Mangrove snake
1:1:0 Southern copper head
1:1:0 Giant hog nose
1:1:0 Taiwan Beauty
0:2:0 Brazilian Rainbow boa
1:0:0 Yellow anaconda
1:0:0 Scrub python
1:0:0 Green tree python
1:1:0 Uni-colored cribo
1:0:0 Albino checkered garter
0:1:0 Pueblan milk snake
0:1:0 Dusky pygmy rattler
0:1:0 Twig mimic snake

1:2:9 Bearded dragon
0:0:2 Nile monitor
2:3:0 Leopard Gecko
1:2:0 Green iguana
1:1:0 Red iguana
1:1:0 Blue tongue skink

5:5:0 Eastern box turtle
1:2:0 Red eared slider
1:1:0 Map turtle
1:0:0 Painted turtle
0:0:1 Sulcata

0:0:1 Dwarf caiman

0:2:0 White-spotted bamboo shark
0:0:2 Saber tusk barracuda
0:0:1 Tiger shovel nose catfish

When you say "bad" can you give more details? It may be they are too wet and are absorbing too much water..also, try dropping the temps 2-3 degrees as well.

Bill

I agree with Bill, I think your incubation temps are too high. I have not bred Spilotes but lowering the incubation temperature made a world of difference with texas indigos. I tried to keep the indigo eggs within a range of 75-80F. Hope this helps.

Bob

Normally the eggs would start looking "slick" followed by discoloration and then collapsing. Should I try bring down the humidity? I will bring down the incubation temp to about 80 -82.

I forget who breeds them (Gonyosoma) with some frequency, but his incubation techniques may be useful for Spilotes as well. I'll find out who it is.

Thankx

Bill
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2:3:5 Cornsnake
2:2:0 Red-tailed rat snake
2:2:0 Tiger rat snake
1:1:0 Carpet python
1:1:0 Mangrove snake
1:1:0 Southern copper head
1:1:0 Giant hog nose
1:1:0 Taiwan Beauty
0:2:0 Brazilian Rainbow boa
1:0:0 Yellow anaconda
1:0:0 Scrub python
1:0:0 Green tree python
1:1:0 Uni-colored cribo
1:0:0 Albino checkered garter
0:1:0 Pueblan milk snake
0:1:0 Dusky pygmy rattler
0:1:0 Twig mimic snake

1:2:9 Bearded dragon
0:0:2 Nile monitor
2:3:0 Leopard Gecko
1:2:0 Green iguana
1:1:0 Red iguana
1:1:0 Blue tongue skink

5:5:0 Eastern box turtle
1:2:0 Red eared slider
1:1:0 Map turtle
1:0:0 Painted turtle
0:0:1 Sulcata

0:0:1 Dwarf caiman

0:2:0 White-spotted bamboo shark
0:0:2 Saber tusk barracuda
0:0:1 Tiger shovel nose catfish

wsrosser@bellsouth.net

I incubate my Spilotes eggs at exactly the same temps (75 to 78 degrees) and in exactly the same manner (medium vermiculite moisture level) as I do my Dry eggs. I believe incubating them at 80 or above is too warm. Remember the internal temp of the incubating egg is a couple of degrees higher than your incubator.

I lost a couple of Spilotes eggs this year not to temp problems, but because I didn't check them for a few weeks and they became too dry.

Brian

That tells me that they "drowned" and the egg was excreting excess water...based on your description anyhow. Dry them out a bit the next time and drop the temps as I and others have recommended.

Bill

I'm the Gonyo guy I think your looking for. If the eggs are already looking slick when their laid its a good bet their infertile. I've been incubation Gonyo eggs in the 78-80F range for some time, but have been having increased issues with hatchling deformities. I'm now trying letting them fluctuate in temp in a drawer in one of my snake rooms. The present temps have been about 77-82F, but it will be a few weeks to a few months before all my eggs in this regime hatch, so I have no conclusive data as of yet. I've also switched from keeping the eggs over moist perlite to putting them on coir (coconut pulp) bedding. I can control the dreaded moisture that explodes janseni eggs much better with this method, and also control the extreme hardness of the eggs at the end of incubation. Gonyos are a true nightmare to hatch!

Freight

Your the one I was referring to. Still have not hatched my Gonyosoma. I've had a clutch from both females since I communicated with you a few months back. One clutch looked slick from the time they were deposited, the other looked great but collapsed several weeks into incubation. I'm gonna drop my temps a bit and decrease the moisture a little as well.

I might try some of your methods with my next Spilotes clutch as well.

Bill
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2:3:5 Cornsnake
2:2:0 Red-tailed rat snake
2:2:0 Tiger rat snake
1:1:0 Carpet python
1:1:0 Mangrove snake
1:1:0 Southern copper head
1:1:0 Giant hog nose
1:1:0 Taiwan Beauty
0:2:0 Brazilian Rainbow boa
1:0:0 Yellow anaconda
1:0:0 Scrub python
1:0:0 Green tree python
1:1:0 Uni-colored cribo
1:0:0 Albino checkered garter
0:1:0 Pueblan milk snake
0:1:0 Dusky pygmy rattler
0:1:0 Twig mimic snake

1:2:0 Bearded dragon
0:0:2 Nile monitor
2:3:0 Leopard Gecko
1:2:0 Green iguana
1:1:0 Red iguana
1:1:0 Blue tongue skink

5:5:0 Eastern box turtle
1:2:0 Red eared slider
1:1:0 Map turtle
1:0:0 Painted turtle
0:0:1 Sulcata

0:0:1 Dwarf caiman

0:2:0 White-spotted bamboo shark
0:0:2 Saber tusk barracuda
0:0:1 Tiger shovel nose catfish

0:1:0 Foul mouthed African Grey

wsrosser@bellsouth.net

My new method is to keep each clutch individual in a deep round Glad type container over a few inches of the coconut pulp. I got the idea from an E. coachwhip breeder that gave me some eggs in Daytona that I transported 1300mi home! The eggs hatched in about 3 weeks after I got them, and the babies are doing well. The idea of letting the eggs flux in temperature is due to the fact that the coachwhips kink if kept at constant temps, so my thinking is that the kinks, and hydrocephally I'm seeing in Gonyos may be due to constant temps as well. I've had particularly bad luck with janseni having kinks and neurologic issues.

If you try this method ring out the pulp till its barely moist. Keep a close eye on the eggs for expansion, and splitting of the outer shell. Physically pick up the eggs from time to time to be sure their not going to blow out at the bottom from moisture exposure, or they'll pop and blow the membranes right out of the egg, and then your dead in the water for sure!

I'm thinking you either have a fertility issue, or possibly a temperature issue with your snakes, so please do let me know the temp regime your keeping them at, and maybe we can try to get you some good eggs from the Gonyos. Send me some pics of your set ups as well, as their may be other issues that need to be addressed as well. oxyjansen@gmail.com
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