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About 4 weeks ago we hatched out a text book perfect clutch of Cinnamons, Incubation was dead on, length of incubation was dead on, the ratio was dead on 6 eggs, 3 Cinnamon and 3 Normals. We noticed right off the bat that one of the Cinnamons seemed to have a more "petite" or narrower/smaller head, as time went on the normals continued to act perfect in every way, have fed 2 times and shed once in 4 weeks since hatching, the Cinnamons on the other hand....are just wierd...Odd...two of them have been hard to get feeding, took the longest out of all of them to finally take a meal, and the third one has eaten 3 times but exhibits a REALLY strange neuro problem.

The only thing I could explain it to is a really bad Spider Wobble, I have not heard of any other morphs exhibiting neurological problems, other than the spider...It just seemed very odd to me that out of a clutch of 6 eggs the 3 that are doing the best, and completley normal are the normals.....

It got me wondering if there was anyone else that had noticed odd things about Cinnamons, and I know this topic is taboo, and nobody every wants to talk about genetic defects, but I just thought I would see what people thought.

I took some video, but for some reason when I uploaded it to the internet it sped up the video...its like stuck on fast forward, but you can still see the action I am talking about. If the pattern on this snake was that of a Spiders, I would guess it would be chaulked up as a bad wobbling spider...and no big deal, but this is a Cinnamon...doing a Spider Wobble?....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3i8Nvm5C4Gk
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Executive Reptiles
Amanda Kingsbury & David Kendrick
www.executivereptiles.com

I've hatched out about 15 Cinnies at this point, and never saw anything at all wrong with them. I still have 4 yearlings that are nothing but perfect, awesome snakes. I'd say that single one you're referring to probably just has a defect.

I had never heard of anything like it either, But havn't hatched out that many.

Thanks for the reply...
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Executive Reptiles
Amanda Kingsbury & David Kendrick
www.executivereptiles.com

I have hatched a couple cinnys with the skinny heads -- I do think that is fairly common -- but no wobbles -- I did get a ch normal this year that does the spider wobble bit complete with looping - I just wish he'd a gotten the appetite that usually goes with it.
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Tosha
JET Pythons

Thanks for the reply, thats interesting you have a Normal that exhibits it.

Thanks for the reply, I was just blown away as I have never seen this behavor in anything other than Spider Ball Pythons and Jaguar Carpets, but I am not "in the know"...ya know, so I thought I would ask and see if anyone else had experienced anything like it. And its interesting to hear that even a normal can express it.

I wonder what causes the neuro like symptoms?
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Executive Reptiles
Amanda Kingsbury & David Kendrick
www.executivereptiles.com

Was one of the parent from a spider clutch ?

I am wondering if the spider wobble problem is passed to other morph or "normal" animals somewhere.

If yes, that would be problematic.
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love this world, don't hate it.

The Female that produced them was a proven normal that we got from a friend who doesn't work with Spiders, and the Male that sired the clutch was a Cinnamon, but I don't think it was from a Spider breeding.

I have talked to quite a few expereinced ball breeders, and they all said it can happen, even with normals, like was mentioned previously.

I think I was just overly paranoid as it was with a Cinnamon, I have been very careful what morphs we have worked with, as I don't want to work with morphs that are prone to what I consider defects, to many they are not, but to me they are.

I am pretty bummed that the "Duckbilling" facial deformaty of the Super Cinnamon and Black Pastels are something that looks like it can't be avoided, as there now has been CinnamonxBlack Pastel supers produced that do have it, and it looks like it might be something that happens with the supers and outcrossing doesn't seem to rid it.

Which changes my plans on what I was going to do with the Cinnamons and Black Pastels I have, but we have stayed away from certain morphs, like the Spider, Carmel Albino, ect...because of the high or higher incidents of defects. And when I saw this hatchling Cinnamon doing a Spider Wobble, I freaked, thinking there might have been something up with the Cinnamons that nobody really has talked about...which would have bummed me out, but nobody seems to have seen it, and it seems like I just had a fluke wierdo Cinnamon, which is a bummer, but I am glad it isn't something that is tied to the Cinnamon gene.

Thanks for all the replies eveyone...
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Executive Reptiles
Amanda Kingsbury & David Kendrick
www.executivereptiles.com