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-TOFFEEBELLY-

I am glad to announced the name of the new line and his originators.

The originator of this new line is Raimo Hühn.
He is in possession of the origin snakes for these amazing new line.

After checking all the Homozygots, he decided to name them -TOFFEEBELLY´s-.
They all have this cool looking toffee colored belly and the deep dark purple pupils whith a light-brown iris.

We think they are some kind of T positiv Albino with a hidden paradox gen.
Because like Justin Mitcham says, some of the F2 hatchlings have the same little dark/black speckles on the belly and the back like the F1 hatchlings.
But time will tell the truth and we will be able to do it in the near future.

now it´s time for pictures:

F1 female

F1 male

yunger F1 siblings

F2 hatchlings

Really nice animals! I wish I would have got some this year, always next year I suppose.

Toffeebellies??
Why not something bit more descriptive with a better English ring to it..I mean when I look at this animal the belly is cool but it's not what comes to mind when I think about these.I think Mr. Huhn should take suggestions and debate what these traits actually are before he makes up his mind.
I would like to see this morph properly named and identified as to what it is. A combination or proper terminology and descriptive wording I think would be more appropriate and professional.
Examples
Paradox caramels
Paradox blondes
Huhn Line Caramels..
T Blondes

Fastdad and Mr Huhn , several weeks we did publically try to come up with a name. Only Filip and few others spoke up. It is not anyones fault it turned out like this. Plain and simple we were/are looking for something to call them..
Why not include those who will be propagating them in the final decision.
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Justin Mitcham
ExtremeHogs.com

>>Posted by: josephschmidt at Wed Sep 17 19:47:49 2008 [ Report >>Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

>>you are referring to Richard Evans line of hypo.
>>this line is completely unrelated.
>>one thing that is a major difference... Mr Evans line has >>lavender belly's this new line has toffee colored belly's.

>>joseph

It was a proposal in your discussion.
The belly color is the most striking character of this new line in comparison to others

All of my albino's from yellow -extreme red have lavender bellies , but there are variations in how they look even know there the same gene. In the animals I have and imported there is also variation with some being more lavender than others and some being a more toffee color as you point out. This difference in coloration could be due to color variance in the line. The red "hypos" I have have a much more true lavender/purple look than the lighter color hypos who have a more toffee look.
I do believe this to be a form of T paradox albino..which would be very very cool if we could bring that paradox trait out more!!
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Justin Mitcham
ExtremeHogs.com

>>I do believe this to be a form of T paradox albino..which would be very very cool if we could bring that paradox trait out more!!

I think the same way! but the child need a name
and the T positiv is not proven jet and not all hatchlings got this paradox.

at ball pythons there is a similar mutation calld Corall Glow. not the same collor but it also seams to be some kind of albinism with paradox spots

but what do you think about: ???Hühn-Paradox-Albino???

i do agree that these are some type of paradox T and they do share simularaties to the coral glow or banana ball in ball pythons how ever this gene is working in a recessive way in hogs where as corals are a dominant trait in balls........heck the coral hog dosnt have a bad ring to it.... what ever they are they are very impressive!!!!

cheers-justin

>>I think the same way! but the child need a name
and the T positiv is not proven jet and not all hatchlings got this paradox.

I am driven to the snakes and have checked.
Some have larger and several spots others have smaller and less.
but:

All the Toffeebellys have these Paradox-Spots

>>I am driven to the snakes and have checked.
>>Some have larger and several spots others have smaller and >>less.
>>but:
>>
>>All the Toffeebellys have these Paradox-Spots

Is it at your the same?

Yes all have it to some degree

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Justin Mitcham
ExtremeHogs.com

Now that is one nice hog.

I would love to have one lol.

>>I would like to see this morph properly named and identified >>as to what it is. A combination or proper terminology and >>descriptive wording I think would be more appropriate and >>professional.
>>Examples
>>Paradox caramels
>>Paradox blondes
>>Huhn Line Caramels..
>>T Blondes
has someone pictures from the BHB-Caramell? to compare whith our Morph!
Is Brian´s Caramell a proven T positiv or just a colour-description?

>>Is Brian´s Caramell a proven T positiv or just a colour-description?

Has it been checked against the BHB Caramel - or even (gasp!) the standard hypo gene? I see some differences, but no more than the differences between regular albino hog and red albino hog (even if you ignore the photoshoped images of reds.....lol). May this just be a new look to an old morph thanks to outcrossing to other locality phenotypes?

Come on, it may be "new new new," but why is nobody asking for or presenting that it is even been tested against the most likely allelic traits?????

Are we jumping on the bandwagon too early? I HOPE this is a new gene completely, but hope isn't enough. With snake morphs, we've learned that our EYES aren't enough, either!
KJ
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KJUN Snakehaven
Pituophis.net

KJ
If you go back and read the very 1st threads I posted on trait you'll see where I stated that we don't know 100% if it is unrelated to the other genes..but I would say it appears so.
I have both animals in my collection, just the fact that most of the these have paradoxing is in my mind a pretty DRAMATIC difference!!
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Justin Mitcham
ExtremeHogs.com

Pretty red albino, by the way. I remember the one you were walking around with in Arlington 2 years ago. Nice.
KJ
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KJUN Snakehaven
Pituophis.net

Sorry...hit the button too soon.....lol.

Meant to say "I sure hope it is new, and there are some features that make me agree with you (although I don't know enough about the 'caramels' to be a real educated source concerning that one). My point is, aren't we a little early to be ARGUING over a name before we know if it deserves a unique tag?" That's my only real point.

In other words, this is all going to look foolish if it isn't a new name. People seem to be more of a rush to try to name something than to try and find out if it is actually new - or even inheritable - or not. I do NOT mean in reference to this morph, or even just hogs. I meant herpetoculture in general. People are even giving things names before they are even produced......lol.

Am I the only one that finds this funny: "In 5 years, I expect to produce a combo. I don't know what it will look like, but I'm going to call it the Zoltaire morph." LOL.
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KJUN Snakehaven
Pituophis.net

LOL, I saw some hogs that lookd exactly like these about 6 years ago or more at Bob Montoya's house.They where awesome and I have never sen any around like them.I think that he and Randy Limburg had imported them or something.
I don't know if they ever established them or not I will have to ask bob.I have some pics around here some place.

L8r Shannon

All i can say is: very interesting!!!
Why not.
Thats not realy unthinkable, similar mutation from diferent originators/origin-parents.
I would please you to post detailed pictures and to ask him about his Hogs.

Ours came from a medium-sized breeding-stock of "normals". They came from different breeders and were sold as normals (no het, poss het or something like this), many years ago.
After some breedings and diferent paarings hatched these stunning Hogs and 3 of our normals turn out as "not normal"

Thats the reason why we make the name-addition HUEHN strain.

LOL..

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Justin Mitcham
ExtremeHogs.com

Here is a BHB caramel next to the European line hypos also a link to my site for a few other pics to view.

The bellies on these guys aren't even close and the color is different. This not to say they aren't the same genes but they definitely look different. Only breeding will be able to confirm compatibility of the traits.

The caramel has been proven as a simple recessive for the person that did ask.

The caramel on the left is NOT in shed.

European Hypo on the right, to me the belly on the European looks the same as my normal hypos.

BHB Caramel Albino and European Hypo

Jeff, thanks for this post! It should clear up a lot of confusion! It did for me anyways! Beautiful animals!
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Louie Chavez

to work with these guys. Send me a group ;O)
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Chris & Alliey
www.bloodyleopard.com
E-mail Us

the eyecolor is truly hard to catch

in the following pictures he is in blue

and now something crazy but no paintshop

F§*#!!!

The lost pictures in the same order.