Reptile & Amphibian Forums

What do you think these two are?

thanks

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FireDrake Exotics
www.FireAndLilac.com

If not, first read this paper
logojoe.com/snakes/heterodon_kennerlyi.pdf

Then these are the scales you want to count, and this is a Mexican Hog

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Herp Conservation Unlimited
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks

I have read that, I found it on a search, but it confuses the bejinkers out of me, so I was hoping someone could translate for me?

and I can get better photos, I'll try for those exact poses.

thanks

Sarah
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FireDrake Exotics
www.FireAndLilac.com

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FireDrake Exotics
www.FireAndLilac.com

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FireDrake Exotics
www.FireAndLilac.com

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>>FireDrake Exotics
>>www.FireAndLilac.com
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Herp Conservation Unlimited
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks

What that paper says is that your snakes key out as Mexicans, but statistically there is still a very small chance they could be Westerns.

After that homework, it's time to ask questions such as where you got them, who bred them, and what were they represented to you as?
Getting the answers to those questions sometimes is the only way to be absolutely sure about them.

Best
Joe
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Herp Conservation Unlimited
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks

On a lighter note she cold just ask them or contact the so called snake whisperer to ask for her. LOL Maybe they are a little of both. You know how some people like to put snakes together just for the sake of having babies. Then it's time to call them whatever they look closer to.

I was surprised to see those scale counts, I figured them for westerns right off, and they may be or certainly could be Westicans or Mexerns.
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Herp Conservation Unlimited
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks

Thanks so much, I was thinking Mexicans as well from what little I could glean from that paper, my mind just doesnt work around some of the terminology in some of these scientific papers. They are just so differently colored than most of the photos I see here of Mexicans. The female is very green and the male is more red.

They were indeed sold to me as Mexicans, they were labled Arizona X Carlsbad but I did not want to mention it so there was no bias when I asked.

They are both 2006 snakes, and when I bought them as tiny hatchlings the seller was not very good at answering questions, but now that the female is almost ready to breed I thought I might double check in case I do decide to breed them.

The reason it's so important to me that I have Mexicans is that here in Colorado we are not legally allowed to sell Westerns! (we can keep them and breed them, however).

I LOVE these snakes, and would not mind another pair!

Thanks again!!!

Sarah
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FireDrake Exotics
www.FireAndLilac.com

>>They were indeed sold to me as Mexicans, they were labled Arizona X Carlsbad but I did not want to mention it so there was no bias when I asked.

OK great, then I feel better about the scale counts.

>>I LOVE these snakes, and would not mind another pair!

I love them too, great snakes. I say get you some more!

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>>Thanks again!!!

no problem
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Herp Conservation Unlimited
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks

>>They were indeed sold to me as Mexicans, they were labled Arizona X Carlsbad but I did not want to mention it so there was no bias when I asked.
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>>They are both 2006 snakes, and when I bought them as tiny hatchlings the seller was not very good at answering questions, but now that the female is almost ready to breed I thought I might double check in case I do decide to breed them.
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>>The reason it's so important to me that I have Mexicans is that here in Colorado we are not legally allowed to sell Westerns! (we can keep them and breed them, however).
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Did you buy these in Colorado or did the person know that you couldn't sell westerns where you live? This could be why they weren't very helpful when it came time to answer questions. All they could of cared about was making a sale. They absolutly could be westerns.

I really like mine too and it's tough to say no to more, so why fight it.

No, I bought them from a guy in New York, he had them advertised here on Kingsnake as Mexican hogs...and I made no mention of any legal issues regarding Colorado.

Thanks

Sarah
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FireDrake Exotics
www.FireAndLilac.com

I think you're good. The Carlsbad area supposedly has both western and mexican, I'm sure that is where yours get that western look. But what matters in your case is they key out to kennerlyi and that "should" keep you safe in Colorado, not to mention that is what they were represented as.

If you go breeding and selling them you should make sure and mention everything you know about them (i.e. Arizona x Carlsbad). Lots of folks won't care one way or the other, but some will.
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Herp Conservation Unlimited
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks

Just wanted to say thanks for posting the pics and outlining the scales. This question has come up many times but this is the first time I have ever seen anyone take the time to outline the scales.