Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I sold a pair of adult argus monitors a year or so ago and I got them back almost 3 or 4 months ago. I was told by the guy that they had got overheated at some point and one of them went into convulsions. He recovered somewhat. When I recieved them the they both shook or trembled when they walked. One was worse than the other. The one who went into convulsions eventually got a lot worse, to the point he stopped eating and did not want to move. When he did move it was like he could not control his movments. I eventually put him down. I had thought that it was something that was caused by the heat stroke but now I am not so sure. Now the other one is starting to get worse. He is still eating ok. He does not want to eat rodents at all. All I can get him to eat is beef heart and catfish nuggets. I dust it with calcium once a week. He is kept in a 5ft cage and temps run around 88 92 hot side and 84 cool side. Basking spot around 105. Freshwater weekly. I had read somewhere that it could possibly be vitamin B1 defeciency. I dont have the option of a good vet. Any help please

I suspect calcium deficiency, especially if the other keeper didn't feed them whole rodents, too.

Get it back on whole rodents. Try smaller rodents that amount to bite-size and work your way up.

Dusting "beef heart and catfish nuggets" with calcium only once a week is nowhere near enough for a monitor that already has dangerously low calcium levels.

I would even dust whole rodents every time until I saw an improvement.

Make no mistake about it, though. In your situation, actually, your monitor's situation, there's no substitue for a Vet at this crucial time. Where there's a will, there's a way. What hinders us most is the value we subconciously place on the animal's life.

I don't mean that hastily, just kind of "point blank," a bit blunt.

Please keep us updated.

Best wishes!
HH
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

Calcium (along with sodium) is key in aiding the musculoskeletal system in the proper and coordinated firing of muscle fibers. Such a deficiency in its later stages, will bring about the exact conditions you describe and shortly there after a painful death. This will not happen only in lizards, but most invertebrates including humans. Many times more so (dangerous) when they still growing, and lack calcium intake/absorbtion.

Heat exhaustion is doubtful, especially in the range of temps you have provided.

Goodluck.
Mike.

I dont know what temps they were kept at before I got them back. My friend only told me that he left the blanket over the top of their cage during the day with a 250 watt heat bulb on. He told me he came home and saw their temp was over 125 degrees. I had thought at first that maybey it was heat stroke. Is there any way to reverse it to where he wont die a painful death? I hate for animals to suffer. I would like to know what I could do to help him.

Go to the vet. If that is not an option all you can do is provide the best husbandry you can.

Make sure his food regardless of what it is, is dusted with calcium, and perhaps even a little vitamin d suppliment will help the absorption in his situation.

What he was being fed, how often it was eating/defacating, when the temps were 125, was the lizard subjected to that 24/7 with no cool area, the variables are unending.

Just provide the best support you can, period. A vet can without a doubt help in your situation, get on the phone if you have to.

Goodluck,
Mike.

Thanks a lot for the help. The closest herp vet to me is over 300 miles away. I have tried some vets over the phone and I dont get a definite answer of anykind. I got more of an answer from here. Go figure! I will do my best. Thanks again. Do you believe there is little chance he will live for long?

I seriously doubt that it's heat related. I'm betting on a calcium deficiency. Use a calcium powder that has vitamin D3 in it and give it food that has a liberal coat of calcium every meal. Wouldn't hurt to place some calcium powder in a bowl in it's cage. If I'm right about it being a calcium deficiency it needs as much calcium as it can get, and fast.

I'll get trounced for this - a UVB light can help, too. Normally they're not needed but I strongly believe your monitor needs every available source it can get at this time.

You're racing against the clock, and the clock has a huge head start on you. If this has been going on for 3 - 4 months and if it is a calcium deificiency it's in the critical stage. A vet can give it calcium shots, which it sounds to me like it really needs.

You really need to try to get it to eat rodents. Like I said in my first post, try small mice or rats coated with calcium.

Best wishes!
HH
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

"Do you believe there is little chance he will live for long?"

From what I understand reading this/ varanus.net forum, is that most peoples reptiles don't live long period. If you can take a sick animal (yours) and turn him around to a healthy adult, thats great, but what are the chances? Well, that depends on you.

Again, goodluck give an update down the road.

Mike.

>> Do you believe there is little chance he will live for long?

I think you can turn him around if you are serious enough about putting the effort into it.

Your basking site is too cold. Fix that, and follow the dietary advice these guys gave....and do a lot of reading.
Read these care sheets and FAQs

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mike Heinrich,
Mike@amazontreeboa.org
www.amazontreeboa.org

Long term calcium deficiancy. This happens alot with tegus that are fed catfood, dogfood, fruit primarily, etc, not whole animals. Its most common among younger fast growing animals.
What happens is the animals system needs so much calcium to keep up with growth, and its metabolism. The animal doesnt intake enough its body will take the calcium from its skeleton. During heavy growth the backbone becomes spongy, or starts to collapse, and constrict on the spinal cord. This results in the shakes you see. Chances are the animal wont live too long, or if you can stop the damage from getting worse to its skeletal system, it will still be permanently effected.
At this stage the only way calcium can be administered correctly is with liquid calcium or from natural sources such as liquid in a mother rodents milk (through eating her freshly fed babies).
Be prepared for this to get worse and the lizard wont live very long most probably.
The best thing to do is see a vet ASAP.

Thanks. I wish I had a vet to take him to. Unfortantley the closest herp vet is over 300 miles away. He wont eat food dusted with calcium. He has issues trying to eat rodents{swallowing}. I will do my best to get calcium down him and help as much as I can, but I think you are right he probably wont live much longer. He has a hard time even walking around at this point. Do you think he is pain? I would hate to let him suffer. It pains me to see him like he is.

Liquid calcium is the only way to give it at this point.
I dont think that they can properly make use of dusted calcium to stave off the condition. Liquid calcium absorbs faster, and more directly, its the only way to treat for a calcium deficiancy.
This was a very common problem over the years with tegus, why, many keepers were under some impression that they should not be fed whole animals, that they need to have fruit and veggies as half of their diet, and that canned cat food is the best thing for them.
This would happen among young tegus, the animal is growing very fast and without a proper diet cannot keep a a proper amount of calcium coming in, therefore the animal robs its own calcium from its backbone, and the rest of its skeleton. Its a gamble whether they survive, or for how long after bad care has taken them this far.
Liquid calcium sells in pharmacies for pregnant women sometimes. Try it, its worth the effort and the few bucks it cost. Also if you try to mix powdered calcium into a liquid it turns into a slow absorbing concrete that can cause many more problems than it can ever help with. Try smaller mice, try chopping them up into little pieces and feed from a dish.

I will pick up some liquid calcium in the morning and try it Thanks.