Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey everyone
I'm a long time herper but a first time poster
Thought I'd share a good story
I'm driving through Central Florida late one morning earlier in the week when I spotted some movement in the grass just off the shoulder of the road. I pull off the road and run back to the spot and what do I see? A SPANKIN' NEW 15 INCH FLORIDA PINE SNAKE. Being a colubrid lover, I have had a few Southern Pine morphs (albino, leucistic) as well as a Bull Snake or two to go along with my kings and rat snakes. However, this will be the first normal one, and my only encounter with a wild Florida Pine so far. I believe it is a female. It took a live hopper within 10 minutes of being set up naturally in a 20L
aquarium.
The road where this snake came from, while only a two-laner,
is a busy road with a 50mph speed limit. I didn't want that little beauty anywhere near there. I am torn between finding a suitable spot for release and keeping and raising the animal.

Any thoughts?

That's a great find. They are becoming harder and harder to find, from what I understand. Would love to see some pics. As for what to do whith it, I guess that's ultimately your call. I have to admit, I would probably keep it, if it were doing well.
-----
Matt Kauffman

will post pics as soon as I figure out how!

Keep it, get out and start looking for a male in a wild. I would love to see a picture.

"Keep it, get out and start looking for a male in a wild. I would love to see a picture."

Just remember, the Florida regulation is one per person.....
-----
Lloyd Heilbrunn

Palm Beach Gardens, Fl.

Did not know that. Thanks for the heads up.

Yeah, that is true...

and personally, I know how cool a find it is, but if I were you I would take some pics and try to let it go somewhere safe. They're rare enough as it is.
-----
Take care,

Alex Pepper

CBB '07 1.1 Aspidites ramsayi--Woma Pythons (Don Hamper/Rare Earth Stock)
CBB '08 1.1 Bothrochilus boa--Bismarck Ringed Pythons (Tom Keogan Line High Contrast)
CBB '07 1.0 Heterodon simus--High Red Southern Hognose Snake (Tom Pinson Line Red)
CBB '07 1.1 Pituophis catenifer sayi--Marathon, Texas Out-crossed Stillwater Hypomelanistic Bull Snakes
CBB '08 1.1 Pituophis melanoleucus lodingi--Black Pine Snakes (John Ginter Stock)
CBB '06 & '08 1.1 Eublepharis macularius--Blazing Blizzard & Reverse Stripe Tangerine Albino Leopard Geckos "Blaze" & "Angie"
CBB '02 0.1 Hemitheconyx caudicinctus--Stiped African Fat-tailed Gecko "Smeagol"
CBB '03 0.1 Canis domesticus--Cocker Spaniel "Cupcake"
CBB '99 0.1 Canis domesticus--Yellow Labrador Retriever "Freckles"

Happy Herping!

I don't think there is anywhere safe here anymore. Even with the economy as it is, central Floida is still being developed at an alarming rate. Been that way since I was born.

You could also raise it up to adult, find a mature male, breed it to the female, release the male, and when you get eggs, release the female, and then you have some nice animals. After all that, select a nice pair from the offspring and finally release the female back into the wild, if you think it will survive. Then release the other babies from the liter along with her as well.
-----
1.1 Newton County Indiana Bulls
1.0 Texas Redish Bull
0.1 Kansas Yellow Bull
2.2 Red X Yellow Bull
1.0 Medicine Hat Alberta Canada Bull
1.2 Ball Pythons
1.2 Coastal Chocolate Cal Kings
1.0 Banded Desert Cal King
0.1 Gray Banded King
0.1 Jasper County SC Corn
1.2 Henderson County NC Black Rats
0.1 South Carolina Northern Pine

yes it is being developed at a bothersome rate.but you know what my impression was last time i was down there(last year) after i really got off the 'beaten path'?it was,not only how BIG the state of florida is,but more specifically,how much decent looking habitat of various types remains,in large tracts no less.yes this even includes the county you found her in.not saying the habitat is virgin,pristine or untouched-far from it-but it is nonetheless very much usable by these herps-in some cases,evidence would show they actually prefer some types of altered habitat.those pits just have a thing for hanging underground.point being,re-releasing her to where she came is far from a lost cause.feels better to do so too,less work for you;win-win all around.now post us some pics!
-----
"with head raised regally,and gazing at me with lidless eyes,he seemed to question with flicks of his long forked tongue my right to trespass on his territory" Carl Kauffeld

ROADS!

my understanding is thats one per person AND one per household for southern pines therefore
breeding normal southern pines forbidden.

don't forget, you can have ten if you have ten people in your home and no law states that you can't give away the late term eggs to other people interiested in raising them too.but you have to do this before the eggs hatch. JB

are you sure????????????
I was under the impression that any breeding of southern pines was illegal in florida (unless albino etc)

no law states you cant breed or give late term eggs away free. officials wont kick in your doors for having eggs, but would throw the book at you for having a clutch of hatched.I ran this down to a game officer at the expo and he said "better not get cought with more than one per person per household."

Great find! Keep it, go back to that same spot and find a male & maybe another female (provided it's all legal, of course). Now you've got a mini breeding group. Oh, and post some pics too.

reako45

in 14 years of living in central florida I only found 2 live Pines. What county did you find it in, if you don't mind me asking? PM me if you don't want to post it on the board.

I've been here my whole life (29yrs) and it's the first I've seen. It was 5 ft. off the shoulder of 441 in north orange county.

I've heard of a couple others being found in that same area.

...am i the only person here that wonders-how does REMOVING a snake from the wild population in fact HELP that populations' numbers and chances of survival in the wild?-what am i failing to see here? explanations welcome!thanks....
let it go dude.snap some great pics,and let it go.as someone already pointed out,the law in your state is one specimen per person anyway.unless perhaps you know someone with a potential mate for it from more or less the exact same locale,than maybe....otherwise i say turn it loose close to where you found it,if not exactly where.
-----
"with head raised regally,and gazing at me with lidless eyes,he seemed to question with flicks of his long forked tongue my right to trespass on his territory" Carl Kauffeld

These pines are cleaner lighter patterned and better colored pines than most being bred currently in the pet trade and all the bigsnakes in the lower 2/3rds of the state stand absolutly no chance to survive, maybe ten more years at best, I know of a hundred other herpers that would stand next to me on that justin, you said florida is bigger than you thought? but our infastructure has snakes crossing a grid of heavier and heavier travaled roads and the swamps seperate the highlands for miles, I dont want to fight with you but you seem so defient on just the swallowing the concept that some species are out of time on this planet and even if its our fault it still constitutes as a NATURAL event as we humans are natural species of earth too. Polar bears are out of time too but we try our best to save them too but fighting nature?, thousands of animal species went extinct before we humans ever came to be... but since the snake hobby is just starting to get a hold in the larger market would it not be both cool and logical to secure all and any genes still comming from the lower 2/3rds of the state. I'm positive leaving them alone does not help them, theres the threat of fireants and forestfires,dogs,coons armoredillos,fox,birds of prey,landowners,cars,loss of habitat from huge developtments ect... Heres my signiture phrase " perhaps we should not be so shocked that the big snakes are disappearing so fast, but be shocked that we still have them around concidering all we have ruined." Joe Bernardo

each snake collected contributes to their decline in the wild-bottom line......P.melanoleucus is a relatively tough species to estimate their numbers,being fossorial and all-but that number of ten years is ridiculous.man,i thought i was an alarmist!funny how you use that to justify your desire to collect from the wild;either that or you're just spreading BAD information-these 'hundred other herpers' are apparently equally misinformed.

so you want to 'secure their genes'-for what?i really want to know what your grand plan is for this species.tell us.

yes,fireants are a problem to just about anything that they can reach.dogs,not so much.coons,okay,but pines are no strangers to the racoon and dealing with them.same with foxes,and birds of prey.....armadillos?what's the problem there?and forest fires-is this a joke?pines are perhaps the 'poster child' species that has suffered most from man's faulty fire-suppression tactics.....??
-----
"with head raised regally,and gazing at me with lidless eyes,he seemed to question with flicks of his long forked tongue my right to trespass on his territory" Carl Kauffeld

pines found down here are mere relics of the past, and the only mis information is what ever your reading about florida, fyi armordillos eat snake eggs and are way out numbering big snakes, so are coons, if you spent as much time as I have in the field I have personally witnessed major declines in pinesnakes, coachwhips, the edb and the indigo, burns are great for a balanced habitat but when there are only one male and three females and the male dies in the burn... don't think it does not happen either I have seen many burned up coachwhips and indigos and eastern diamondbacks this is where the northern part of the states snakes have the advantage, there are rocky holes in the ground, down here we have only washed in old relic gopher tortoise holes(relicts or remnents) this is not my theroy justin your mis-informed, these big snakes don't stand a chance down here, if you knew me personaly you would take my word. dont be so stubborn and trust me when I say only a few people know more about the lower two thirds of florida, mostly high sandy areas and flatwoods west of SR27.

If I were to die tomorrow I'd say I'm glad that I've done as much as I have to preserve the gene that IS disappearing at a fast rate, maybe not gone in ten years but very soon and I am positive of this, the books you are reading about florida are wrong, but anyway mostly their disappearing from loss of habitat and I only hunt here in my area. therefore my "grand plan" is to secure the gene that I concider potentialy valuable to future herpers, so they don't think that the dark headed pines from the better habitat of the northern third of the state are the typical southern pinesnake. justin I hope they name the white headed/grey/lavender color varient of the S.Pine after me to justify all those years on my knees bent over looking down a hole, or following tracks in 104* heat indexs, hikeing up and down hills, I'm sorry justin but in my eyes you are more part of the problem not the solution. go find a rare snake thats still legal to own and MAKE MORE!...oh and by the way I still have not found one worth keeping, that make you feel better?, because it should wake you up, I have been in the woods 25 years, and advid hunting! Sincerly, JB

Of course removing snakes from the wild does not not help wild populations, but it does help captive populations, and in the unfortunate case of the Florida Pinesnake, captive populations might be all we have left in another 5-10 years. Central Florida gets 400,000 new residents a month from Daytona Beach to Tampa (OlrandoSenteniel.com). It has been that way for about a decade.

The first (and only other) wild florida pine snake I had was about twelve years ago. I kept him for a little over a year, and then released him in suitable habitat near Daytona Beach.
Do you know what stands in that location today? A strip mall.