Reptile & Amphibian Forums

All,

Check out this excerpt from statements made by turtle biologist Matt Aresco. This is an example of academics pushing the turtle agenda in Florida:

''Turtles are not fish. The commission doesn't seem to recognize that,'' turtle biologist Matt Aresco said. ``We know turtles cannot be sustainably harvested. Softshells take 10 years to reach maturity. They have totally different life histories and should not be lumped into a commercial fishing license.''

“We know turtles cannot be sustainably harvested,” period, end of story? All species, all age classes? I didn’t know that to be an indisputable fact. Turtles have been harvested by American Indians for thousands of years and by Europeans for 400 years. But they can’t be sustainably harvested at all? None, zero, zip?

No, they are not fish but there is a sustainable harvest amount. Determine what it is with DATA and then make some management regs with bag limits. Another prime example of the banning “agenda” of academics in action.

Welkerii
El Paso, TX

"Soft shells take 10 years to mature" is obviously incorrect.
Any true biologist would know that.
While it may be true in Canada or other extreme Northern Latitudes, it certainly isn't true in Florida.
That's just one example, how they play fast and loose with the facts.
They think because they have the shingle denoting some level of knowledge, the American public will buy hook line and sinker all the Expert/Authority BS they spew forth.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

>>''Turtles are not fish. The commission doesn't seem to recognize that. . .should not be lumped into a commercial fishing license.''

This guy does not understand the impetus behind listing turtles (in FL) or even ALL reptiles (e.g. CA) under a fishing, vs. hunting license.

It has nothing to do with biology.

It has everything to do with not needing to get a hunting license, which requires attending a hunter education class, which is only useful if you're hunting with a firearm, which most herp enthusiasts do not.
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Chris McMartin
www.mcmartinville.com
I'm Not a Herpetologist, but I Play One on the Internet

Actually there are sound biological reasons (other than practicality) for herps to be handled under fishing regulations. Unlike hunting, which is inherently lethal, the majority of hobbyist herp "hunting" is actually a form of "catch and release". Most herpers I know-even those with extensive private collections-seldom or never actually KEEP a wild-collected herp.

The "academic" quoted above has let his hyperbole get ahead of the facts. I believe it is inarguable that "some" species of turtles cannot be harvested sustainably-but ALL of them? I think even few academics would endorse that statement!
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

I never could understand why I had to get a hunting license for catching turtles, either. They were all aquatic. Maybe they just wanted to make the extra money off the combo. I do not hunt, but I do fish.
Does it take a hunting license to gig frogs? I honestly don't know. Should be fishing, if anything.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

>>Does it take a hunting license to gig frogs? I honestly don't know. Should be fishing, if anything.

Catch-and-release gigging?

It makes sense for aquatic life to be under a fishing license--I've inadvertently caught sliders, softshells, and stinkpots on hook and line, and purposely caught a couple of bullfrogs the same way. In other words, sometimes the herps are bycatch for an angler, but said angler shouldn't all of a sudden need to produce a hunting license to "cover all the bases."

However, I don't think any state which uses the fishing-license-for-aquatic-life concept considers water snakes as part of that category.
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Chris McMartin
www.mcmartinville.com
I'm Not a Herpetologist, but I Play One on the Internet

>>Actually there are sound biological reasons (other than practicality) for herps to be handled under fishing regulations. Unlike hunting, which is inherently lethal, the majority of hobbyist herp "hunting" is actually a form of "catch and release". Most herpers I know-even those with extensive private collections-seldom or never actually KEEP a wild-collected herp.

That's another good point. I think a lot of states that keep herps on the hunting side of the regs just threw all animals into the same "bucket" of statutes a long time ago, never considering that people might actually want to keep a snake ALIVE rather than just kill it!
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Chris McMartin
www.mcmartinville.com
I'm Not a Herpetologist, but I Play One on the Internet