Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Someone posted here awhile ago about getting a permit for a ball python in NJ. I sent them a PM, but I forgot their name. I apologize for not getting back to you sooner. I procrastinated big time, but finally got the answer from NJDFW that I needed.

On the application it says that "Your 20-day temporary permit receipt (pink slip) should be sent with this application. All
permits will be denied if receipts are not provided." Being that all my ball pythons were either shipped to me or bought at a show, I didn't have one of these. Actually, if I had bought it at a pet store I'm not sure I would have one either. I asked at a pet store once, already knowing the answer, if you needed a permit for a ball python and they wrongly said no.

Anyway, the bottom line is, the lady at the NJDFW said to just say that you bought it at _________ Reptile Show and you will be ok.

On a side note, I thought it was a little ridiculous that you needed a permit for a ball python when you don't need one for a boa constrictor. Apparently, the regulations were written in the 70s and they will be changing that. I don't know when it will be but when they change you will need a permit for a boa. I wish they would take ball pythons off the list while they were at it. I mean seriously, ball pythons are harmless and are not a threat to the natural wildlife of NJ.

I live in New Jersey and you actually do need permits for BCI, at this time it is BCC you do not need permits for.

I have 6 BCI on my permit at this time.

NJ regulations are not nearly as restrictive as many other states and if you have the animal on your permit now and then it gets banned, say like Anacondas for example you can still have the snake until it dies. The 5 boroughs of NY you can not legally OWN a ball python at this time. And yes I got this info from the president of the Staten Island Herp society very recently. And it's only 10 bucks for as many animals as you want and a grandfather clause included as well...NJ is GREAT.

>>Someone posted here awhile ago about getting a permit for a ball python in NJ. I sent them a PM, but I forgot their name. I apologize for not getting back to you sooner. I procrastinated big time, but finally got the answer from NJDFW that I needed.
>>
>>On the application it says that "Your 20-day temporary permit receipt (pink slip) should be sent with this application. All
>>permits will be denied if receipts are not provided." Being that all my ball pythons were either shipped to me or bought at a show, I didn't have one of these. Actually, if I had bought it at a pet store I'm not sure I would have one either. I asked at a pet store once, already knowing the answer, if you needed a permit for a ball python and they wrongly said no.
>>
>>Anyway, the bottom line is, the lady at the NJDFW said to just say that you bought it at _________ Reptile Show and you will be ok.
>>
>>On a side note, I thought it was a little ridiculous that you needed a permit for a ball python when you don't need one for a boa constrictor. Apparently, the regulations were written in the 70s and they will be changing that. I don't know when it will be but when they change you will need a permit for a boa. I wish they would take ball pythons off the list while they were at it. I mean seriously, ball pythons are harmless and are not a threat to the natural wildlife of NJ.
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Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
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Thanks,

I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.

Yea new jersey actually has pretty relaxed reptile laws. I recently moved down in Delaware for school and in order to get a reptile permit you need to own 1 acre of land, because that makes so much sense lol. It also seems kinda odd to me that BCC's don't need a permit but BCI's do? Although I've done some field work with people from NJDEP and they couldn't tell the difference between an eastern hognose and a norther pine snake so I guess its not all that surprising.

It also seems kinda odd to me that BCC's don't need a permit but BCI's do?

Well in the seventies Boa's where a very common pet and they used the Latin name Boa c. constrictor, so to letter of their law the subspecies don't match their current law, all boa's will soon need to be permitted. The current law deprives the state of a permit fee (which is nominal at 10 dollars IMO)that you need to even own a kingsnake, so they are changing to make the regulations fairer to all others that must pay permit fee. I have had a permit for over 20 years and it was always 10 dollars are they sat they have no plans of raising the fee, this is so parents with small children do not have to pay a larger sum to a aspiring Herpetologist or just some kid who wants a Frog. Makes sense to me.
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Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
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Thanks,

I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.

My mistake. Although it doesn't make any sense that you need a permit for BCI and not BCC. If anything, you would think it would be the other way around, no?

Yeah, hard to believe that it is illegal to own ball pythons in NYC. They are one of the safest pet snakes.

Don't get me wrong. I wasn't hating on NJ, but the whole boa vs ball python thing just doesn't make sense.

according to a certain presidential candidate, it seems as though we're a little to worried about our guns and bibles to worry about banning snakes...
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~Maggie~

"Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious."
1.1 Cal Kings (Spot and Fry)
1.0 Brooksi
1.0 Ball Python
0.1 Red Belly Piranha (Fluffy)
1.0 Australian Shepherd (Spooky)
1.0 Springer Spaniel/Beagle mix (Snoopy)
0.1 German Shep mix (Shadow)
0.1 Cat (Echo)

>>according to a certain presidential candidate, it seems as though we're a little to worried about our guns and bibles to worry about banning snakes...
>>-----
>>~Maggie~
>>
>>"Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious."
>>1.1 Cal Kings (Spot and Fry)
>>1.0 Brooksi
>>1.0 Ball Python
>>0.1 Red Belly Piranha (Fluffy)
>>1.0 Australian Shepherd (Spooky)
>>1.0 Springer Spaniel/Beagle mix (Snoopy)
>>0.1 German Shep mix (Shadow)
>>0.1 Cat (Echo)
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Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
=========================================================
Thanks,

I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.

In the days of Starsky and Hutch (when the law was written hehe)

Boas where a very common pet so the state opted not to charge people to keep them.

They have been very slow to change the law, it has nothing to do with boa v python or if one is more dangerous to people or environment, just was written at a time that they where commonly sold in pet stores and kept and so they didn't bother charging people a fee to do so.

>>My mistake. Although it doesn't make any sense that you need a permit for BCI and not BCC. If anything, you would think it would be the other way around, no?
>>
>>Yeah, hard to believe that it is illegal to own ball pythons in NYC. They are one of the safest pet snakes.
>>
>>Don't get me wrong. I wasn't hating on NJ, but the whole boa vs ball python thing just doesn't make sense.
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Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
=========================================================
Thanks,

I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.

Nice to know that they didn't charge a fee since the boa was a common pet. I guess the no fees for common reptiles doesn't really apply now huh. But agreed, $10 is nothing and it's not like it's difficult to acquire the permit.

Back in 70's early 80's I was one of the few people I knew that kept snakes, they where not too poular like they have become, so the state should reap the revenues from their popularity. I had a retic in the early 80's. A wild caught one, I was considered a crazy person by MOST.

>>Nice to know that they didn't charge a fee since the boa was a common pet. I guess the no fees for common reptiles doesn't really apply now huh. But agreed, $10 is nothing and it's not like it's difficult to acquire the permit.
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Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
=========================================================
Thanks,

I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.

I would still consider you a crazy person lol. Nah, I just wouldn't want to put up with taking care of a snake of that size. It would get old real quick for me. But they are awesome animals. I guess you just have to like them more than I do to make it worthwhile.

I'm guessing the biggest reason snakes and other reptiles are more popular today is that people have learned how to properly take care of them and successfully keep them. Adding to this would be the importation of morphs and, I'm going out on a limb here, perhaps people are not quite as ignorant about reptiles as they once were?

The average person is still just as ignorant IMO. I have kept Boas, Pythons, and Colubrids from as early as the age of 8, got bit my first snake at 3 or 4 years old was facinated ever since!

>>I would still consider you a crazy person lol. Nah, I just wouldn't want to put up with taking care of a snake of that size. It would get old real quick for me. But they are awesome animals. I guess you just have to like them more than I do to make it worthwhile.
>>
>>I'm guessing the biggest reason snakes and other reptiles are more popular today is that people have learned how to properly take care of them and successfully keep them. Adding to this would be the importation of morphs and, I'm going out on a limb here, perhaps people are not quite as ignorant about reptiles as they once were?
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Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
=========================================================
Thanks,

I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.

Yeah, agreed. Reptiles are the coolest animals. My favorite part of the zoo when I was younger was always the reptile house. I always wanted a snake growing up but my dad had a phobia and wouldn't allow snakes in the house. Needless to say, first thing I did when I moved out was get a snake.

I have had a hobby permit and a wholesale/dealer permit for over 2 years now.
I have never submitted any pink slips...I do not even know what they are.
If I sell a snake at a reptile show or online, I simply state that.
If I sell a snake to someone in NJ, I will get all their information and submit it.
The permit process was not bad at all. I thought it would be for years but it is actually quite reasonable.

In fact, I like having to re-inventory what I've bought/sold over the past year to see the patterns in my own insanity of a hobby.lol

I am also a h.s. teacher and have met numerous folks in the NJDFW that deal with reptiles. The costs for permits, in most cases, go towards funding for many educational programs including teacher workshops, which are fantastic by the way.

If you live in NJ, there are some phenomenal field guides for Herps, as well as Vernal Pools....you might have to order them for a few bucks, but its worth it.

Anyway, I think the NJ permits are reasonable and are a good foundation for regulations. I've always thought that mega-constrictors, venomous, and crocs should be only owned by folks that have business owning them. That stuff doesn't apply to me...I keep BCI boas (hogs, cays, nics, etc), albino corns, and BP's mostly...with a few other miscellaneous colubrids.....Overall, I'm pleased with how the process is and I hope its not changed any time soon.
~ Jason

And I was the one wanting to know about the permits... this is the website still right???:

http://www.njfishandwildlife.com/pdf/xotic_hobby.pdf

Do I send the $10.00 bucks (or whatever fee it may be) in with this application?? Does my fiancee (my partner in the hobby) need a separate permit or can we both be on the same one? If we move does it have to be renewed?? Is there any specific regulations in housing I need to know about or change in my reptile room before I submit the permit?? Do they come check on you before they okay the permit?? And for the food area, I can state most are f/t, should I say the pet store where I obtain the live and that no rodents are kept within my resident?? Are Burmese Pythons an extra fee (I heard they are rumored to be)? I also do not have any pink slips either -- all my snakes have been bought out of state.

Help would be AWESOME. I've been trying to become legal for a lonng time...

And sorry for all the questions; I've left multiple messages and no one seems to want to get back to me...
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Cheers!
• Chelsea Lynn Gardiner
(and Frank M. Wood)

You are correct...that is the permit for the HOBBY only...meaning to simply keep reptiles. If you plan to breed & sell them, you need another permit. The other type of permit depends on how you plan to sell I guess. If you plan on selling in a retail type situation (aka petstore) then you need a retail permit. If you plan to sell at shows and/or to petstores, then you need a dealer/wholesale permit ($100).

Yes, you would send the $10 dollars in for the hobby permit. The address is on the application. However, the other permits go to different offices.

As for your fiancee/partner....I guess it would depend if they live at a different address. For instance, I could probably list my wife if I wanted to on my permit b/c we're both at the same address....but if it's a fiance at a different address with different animals, then I they would need a separate permit....unless you just claim the animals on your permit to make it simple. If you move, you can simply wait until you renew to change your address or make corrections. You probably can call in changes but I think there is a fee for that.

As for specific regulations in housing....I'm not aware of any...but you should be specific in describing how the herps are housed...I think I listed something like 'all animals individually housed in professional-style rack systems with water bowls and aspen sani-chips as substrate." I also describe the heating system I use.

No...they do not come & check you out.....the NJDFW simply does not have the resources from what they've told me. I'd imagine there are more important things such as commercial fishing companies being watched for illegal practices. If all is on the up & up...then there's no reason to worry. I'll admit, I was worried b/c I still had a few abbott line okeetee corn snakes but I sold them as soon as I could so I wouldn't be in violation of any regulations.

For food....yes...if you feed f/t...then state 'frozen-thawed' food from petsmart or rodentpro or where ever you get it.

Burmese pythons???? I do not know about these since I do not personally have one.
Don't worry about the pink slips....I know it says something about needing them but as long as you are as accurate as possible with where & when you purchased the animal, then I think it will be fine. As I stated before, the NJDFW is really underfunded...its one of the first to get budget cuts in the state....their main source of funding educational programs is through the permit system. Think of it this way, if you pay the fees, you are supporting state funded wildlife education programs....they aren't 'out to get' anyone from what I can tell. Go legal and save yourself the stress and worries of getting in trouble for what amounts to a very small permit fee.

I never called anyone...I simply downloaded the forms and mailed them in with my check. Also, just an FYI...if you mail in your check in November, then you have to renew again right away in December...so you might as well wait until December to submit all your paperwork. The permits don't run 1 year from when you submit them...they run from Dec to Dec.

Hope I helped a bit. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask....I am MUCH happier now that I am 'legit' and have proper permits for stuff. No more worrying about men in full riot gear breaking through my front door b/c I have ball pythons and nicaraguan boas.lol

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Sincerely, Jason
www.NortheastSnakes.com
NortheastSnakes@verizon.net

well you helped me out by reading that. im actually new to nj about a year old and i lived in ny and unfortunetly thats where my balls are. i have 4 albinos spider and pastel and always fear that someone may rat me out. but since i live here i was thinking about getting my nj permit for them and hopefully move them here with me but if not at least if i did get in trouble in ny for them maybe they would give me a break since i live here and have a permit for them? what do you think? thanks again.

"thinking about getting my nj permit for them and hopefully move them here with me but if not at least if i did get in trouble in ny for them maybe they would give me a break since i live here and have a permit for them? what do you think? thanks again"

??? why hopefully move them here with you???? What are they still doing in NY? Who really owns them? I do not know anything about NY regulations but would be more than willing to bet that if they're not allowed and you get caught...they won't make exceptions nor will they give you a break. Quite the opposite...I bet they'd throw the book at you to make an example out of folks who don't follow NY laws. But hey..thats just my humble opinion. What's the point of owning snakes if you don't technically own them??? If you've been in NJ a year, why not keep them where you live? There are a lot of things your last post raises questions on....too many 'what if's' I honestly don't know what to tell you other than get permits for snakes that you currently have with you in the state that you live in. Otherwise, who knows what kinda laws you could be breaking...and it could put the overall hobby in jeopardy.

I keep them at work in ny! I can not keep snakes and rats at my house! Wife will kill me! I thank you for you post i need to make changes and find a place in nj for them?

Now I just gotta find someplace that has a list of illegal species... the last thing I need to find out is my Burms are illegal, LoL. I was also told before that certain morphs of corn snakes are illegal in NJ too, go figure, but I'm not worried about that.

My fiancee and I live together for years, so I'm gonna try putting both our names on the line and see what happens. Since its for a good cause, like you had stated, I don't think I'd mind spending an extra ten bucks to be legal now and contribute again in December. It bugs me not knowing, you know?

I never thought to ask as well, do they check and see if you own your residence?? I rent, and my landlord knows I keep reptiles, but I'm pretty sure he'd pitch an absolute fit if he was brought into permit issues. He doesn't like me having them AT ALL, but he lets me get away with it simply because I'm a Vet-Tech, I pay rent on time, and I keep the house nice. But I think if legal questions were thrown at him he'd spazz (he's not the nicest guy).

LoL, again, thanks for the help!!

P.S. Did you put the morph names of your ball pythons that you listed on the permit??
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Cheers!
• Chelsea Lynn Gardiner
(and Frank M. Wood)

Here are some links that will help:

http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/exotic_apps.htm
http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/pdf/permregs.pdf

One of the links above lists 'illegal' species.
I don't think burms are listed as illegal so you may be alright.
But double check the fine print in those links just to be safe.

I would worry about having illegal corns...the people at the permit office are VERY serious about it. To put it simply...get rid of them if they don't have red eyes. I now only work with Lavender, Snows, Albinos and Butter corn snakes.

There is nothing on the permit application about whether or not you own or rent. There is a small disclaimer at the bottom of the application that tells you to be aware of local city or county ordinances. A friend of mine in law enforcement once told me 'ignorance of the law is not a valid reason to break the law'. I wouldn't worry about anyone asking your landlord questions though.

I did not list ball python morphs. I simply listed them as ball pythons and the number of BP's I had. Keep it simple. BUT...corn snakes...you do need to list their morphs.
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Sincerely, Jason
www.NortheastSnakes.com
NortheastSnakes@verizon.net