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Im looking for a pied male. I was wandering What your guys toughts was on if High white males throw high white babys. Or low white males throw low white babies. I really like the look of some of these lower white guys. I really dont want the 90%white snake.Abot 50% looks great.

Im pretty new at this stuff myself but I have aquired some very knowledgable friends in my short time of breeding. I just asked that same question the other day as to whether or not high white Pied's tend to throw more high whites and I was told not necessarily. I was thinking myself high white=high white. I wish the experts would chime in.
3.16 Normals
6.6 Pastels
3.5 Spiders
2.1 Lessers
0.4 het for Albino
1.2 100% het for Clowns
1.2 Cinnamons
1.2 Mojaves
1.1 GCR Black Pastels
1.1 BumbleBees
1.1 Super Pastels
1.1 Fires
1.1 Brazillian Rainbow Boas
1.0 Pinstripe
1.0 Albino
1.0 Enchi
0.1 het for Pied
80 Tarantulas
2 Leopard Geckos
1 Scorpion
Last but most Important 2.2 Children

The babies a Pied would throw would vary no matter if the snake was low or high white. Everyone has their own "perfect pied." I usually like abour 60% white with lots of even breaks in the color. But either way, if you want low white babies, I would stick with a low white male -- I can't imagine it NOT bettering your odds on getting your version of a perfect/low-medium pied.

If that made any sense. I might be wrong, but it to the best of my knowledge.
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Cheers!
• Chelsea Lynn Gardiner
(and Frank M. Wood)

It makes sense.

It does not matter if the pied is high white or low white. You can get high whites from low whites. And low whites from high whites. I really like the low whites!

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http://www.myspace.com/jasballpythons
http://www.reptileradio.net/reptileradio/index.php

Yea that one looks nice.

Completely random.

Breeder male Pied

Bred to two het females and produced

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www.dbherp.com

Male Sire

Offspring

And

Thanks.

Chris

I actually wrote up a paper a few years back about this very topic. I also discussed the Pied "Marker" traits found on WT and Het. animals.

I hypothesized that the belly marker trait is due to another gene that influences the amount of white on a piebald. This also allowed for wild type animals to have the belly marker trait since it is a separate gene. At the time I wrote the paper the Yellow Belly was just beginning to excite breeders and the Ivory hadn't been produced. Since then we have seen the importance of various belly traits/genes on various known morphs.

As far as the amount of white being random. I disputed this, however, after sitting down and working out every possible combination of the piebald gene along with the various belly marker genes, the number of possibilities was staggering. Even a breeder with as many Piebalds as Peter Kahl would have had difficulty predicting the outcome of each of the clutches.

In essence, I do not think it is "random", however, the number of possibilities is so huge it seems random to the observer. Especially considering that ball pythons have such small clutches.

The degree of color distribution in piebald dogs is genetic.It takes time and selective breeding to develope ....less than it would for bp I am sure.
Toni

so you theorize that the "pied markers" seen in wild animals are actually a marker for another inherited trait that determines the amount of white on a Piebald. In other words if the het has no markers in theory it should be a "low white" piebald? So if the original line proved by Pete Kahl was also a carrier of this trait then anything from that line could be possible carriers as well and hence have the "marker".

I just wasn't sure if I was understanding you right. The whole "pied marker" thing has been pretty confusing wihout experience of breeding them to base it on (maybe one day I will).

Do you have a copy of the paper you wrote available? Is it published where I can find it. It might help shed some light on my confusion.

Thanks

Balzo, it was quite a while ago, but I'm sure if you give me some time I could find it somewhere on one of my hard drives. I also typed out every punnet square so if you want to print that out and sit down with a calculator... be my guest.

Send me an email so I can send it all to you directly.

Male:

Offspring:

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-Jeff
http://jefflumanreptiles.com

It does not matter if the male is high white or low white he has the same odds of throwing high or low babies. It is not a genetic trait just luck

But keep in mind that spider and apparently mojave and Vin Russo make high white pieds so there could be some genetic component. It could be that some variation that looks normal to us also effects how high white the pied mutation will go. If it's something we cant see on it's own and that could be inherited from either side it would be very hard to predict and might appear random.