Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am thinking its a true hypo but it could be a t .It is w/c and is locale and will be bred in a year or two.But please no e-mails or posts asking for locale data or any specific questions because I am not at liberty to give any other info at this time.
I just want to see what you guys think it is for sure.Yes, I know its a triangulum triangulum but hypo or t plus?

btw, its a sub adult male.

Shannon

Hard to say Shannon...but it looks like the other "hypos" I've seen...

but my opinion it it's a "T " or "extreme" or "mega" gene going on...

-Rusty

Shannon, from those photos I'd say it looks like a hypo. Cool looking triangulum triangulum. He looks like a good project for someone, and locality w/ him, even better. You don't see t. triangulum like that everyday.

Here is a hypo Redmilk you have seen before, do the saddles look the same color on this syspila as that t. triangulum? Or is it just me.

And here is another little Red hypo.

One more thing, it might be interesting to see the muted black checkering on the ventral portion of that triangulum.

Here is a belly shot.Crappy pic but its all I have right now.

L8r

Ha, ha, your right Shannon I have seen better photos from you. But thanks.
What I was trying to see is if the black checks would look brown, like in your first photos or if they would be grayed down like so many hypos can get.
I'll bet that is a nifty hypo to see in person.

I've been fiddling around w/ these shots, to try and see if I can get a good shot of the ventral and dorsal patterns in one photo. Not there yet, but fun to play w/.

South Dakota, L.t.multistrata
-Dell

I didn't take these pics.I am trying to get some better ones as we speak.He looks like the "lava" corn or transperant they used to call them.
L8r

That photo looks like its going into shed! LOL Still say its albino.
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Darwin Rocks!

I would suggest it was a "Tony D special",lol. It looks like the same gene at work as the "hypo" coastals, so can we now start talking about RENAMING them for the 2nd time??

For what its worth Jeff, I've never crossed the hypo coastal into easterns or any other sub-species for that matter but thanks for insinuating that I have.
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Darwin Rocks!

Tony, first, it was NOT an insult. Second, you told me you wanted to years ago....My point was if it was done successfully I would have bet it would have been you. Dont be so sensetive.

I know your post wasn't intended as an insult but it was thoughtless. It doesn't take much to cause ruin peoples reps along these lines. You know that.

"Second, you told me you wanted to years ago"

I recall talking about reasons to outcross one being to increase size of a smaller neonate. Crossing coastals to easterns was put out as an example. If it were my intent to do so it would have been done years ago!

I talk about crossing a lot Jeff but its as often as not just to get a rise out of the purity crazies. My lates is to ask what they think about an eastern king X northern pine cross. That shoots at two sacred cows at once and gets a lovely reaction.
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Darwin Rocks!

Tony, Maybe some of us want to get a rise out of you too! You know the saying..if you cant stand the heat....

you're right. Sorry, sometimes I get a little touchy! I also understate things.
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Darwin Rocks!

-Rusty

Thanks Rusty.

now if you can just get about 3 more inches of depth of field...then it's all good.

You've inspired me! Give me some time and I'll post something similar...if I have time that is!!!

HA!

Love it man...

-Rusty

I think your right Rusty, more depth of field would be a big help for a better photo. I'm a hack photographer always trying to get better.
When you try doing the mirror thing you'll be surprised by all the bad light you find in your photos. I think the thing to use would be a white box and the mirror, more even light from the white box would really help. I have a white box ordered and will try more of these shots when it arrives.
Still nothing beats a good in the field shot.
Oh, one more thing that will help. I have the snakes on glass raised about a quarter of an inch off the mirror.

-Dell

Cherry co. NE

that (Multistriata/pale?) is killer!!!

I'm not too good at identification of NA milks!

I'll give your suggestions a shot...one day when I can find some time!!!!

-Rusty

Awesome.
Buncha eastern milks coming out of the shadows these days.

I wanna see more of the white sides and albinos, personally.
But that hypo looks sweet.
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Mike
KingPin Reptiles Inc.
www.kingpinreptiles.com

That is a smoker! Its really hard to tell from the photos but I would guess its a T . In my opinion, many milks we call hypos are T , such as the extreme honduran and the hypo peublan. Just my opinion What color are its eyes?

Dave
DNS Reptiles

One of my favorite milk species.

I love that coloration.

Carmela wants some of that

Dances With Reptiles

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Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey

1.0.0 Ball Python - Python regius "Cain" Rescued from a crack house
0.1.9 Eastern MilkSnake WC "Carmella" adult super sweet temperment (Eggs all hatched!)
1.3.13 Storeria dekayi Casper, Xena, Athena, Sharon & Kids
0.1.0 Thamnophis cyrtopsis Easter Black Neck Garter "MoJo"
1.1.0. Thamnophis elegans vagrans Wandering Garter
2.2.0 Thamnophis Sirtalis - Florida Blue stripe Garter
2.1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis - eastern Garters
0.0.1 Thamnophis HybridAlbino Checkered Normal eastern
2.0.0 Thamnophis sirtalis - eastern Garters (xtreme orange phase)
1.1.0 Thamnophis RADIX - Snow Hets
0.1.0 Thamnophis RADIX - Christmas Albino
0.0.1 Thamnophis sirtalis - Red Phase Eastern Garter red and white stripes
0.0.1 Thamnophis butleriButler's Garter Snake
0.0.4 Thamnophis proximus orariusCoastal Ribbons
0.0.16 Thamnophis sirtalis - newborn Eastern Garter babies 7/11/08
0.0.17 Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis HET Anerythristic Scott Felzer stock.
0.1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis Eastern Snow "Snowflake"
0.0.1 Thamnophis sirtalis infernalis California Red Sided (R.I.P. little guy)
1.2.0 Thamnophis pickeringi - Puget Sound Garter "Sky" (adult, Sky blue) 2 females recently aquired.
0.0.1 Nerodia sipedon - Water Snake - "Aqua" adult WC Pink eater!
0.1.0 Storeria occipitomaculata - Red Belly snake (Her children were raised & released)
0.0.1 Amelanistic Corn Snake "CY" Sub-adult CB
1.0.0. Pueblan Milk snake "Oreo" adult CB
1.0.0. ASIAN GREEN SNAKE 3' WC Cyclophiops major"Limon"
0.0.1. Savannah Monitor "CHOMPER" Growing fast!
1.1.3. Green Anole "Crystal" & "Chris" WC dropping eggs fast!
1.0.0. K9 "ACE" Black Cockapoo
0.2.0. Feline"Felix"(R.I.P. 4/27/08) "Kaja" & "Silver"
2.1.0. calico RATS
2.4.?? Mice - Feeder farm - Crickets / fish
More herps than I could ever list out back on the land.

Very nice. He looks very much like hypo coastals I've seen. If I remember correctly though, many people believe the coastals may be T pos and not hypo? His head looks a little different than the amel, a little more stout.

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Joe

Yes Joe, thats why I posted him.I wanted to see what people think.I guess without a true test one would never know for sure if its a t plus or a hypo just like in the temps.Either way I am sure its a simple recessive gene and we should know in a couple years.
We should hook up a hypo and your amel at some point as well.

L8r Shannon

Absolutely Shannon. I'm hoping the amel starts passing on his genes in the next year or two.
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Joe

Looks exactly like the coloration of the hypo coastal though that doesn't answer the question because people have been asking it for years about the coastal.

I would tend to say that one is some type of albino based on what I see of the eyes. The thing to remember about the T or T-thing is that the difference can only be established viva a skin test as the two types do not necessarily have to have an expressly different phenotype.

Neat looking snake though there was another hypo which definitely had a more muted hypo-ish look to it collected in Virginia a couple of years back I think somewhere around Laury.
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Darwin Rocks!

Tony, do you know what happened to that other one? this one was collected in N.Y but I am not at liberty to say just yet.
L8r

I hope it was collected with a permit?? As ALL native NY reptiles require a permit to harvest,take, or possess now.

No I don't. I believe they guy holding it is in TN but not sure as it's been awhile. It was a very ncie and distinct looking animal though. Between it and Joe's albino easterns may be poised to become more prominent in the hobby. its sometimes a shame that it takes morphs to do that becasue there are some local of easterns that are completely smoking. Mike Bell had some from Fredricksburg MD that were completely awesome but the line never really took off. Sad.
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Darwin Rocks!

Joe's albino and this T+/Lavender are both males, good thing Carl and I have anery females~~~~

That's a nice looking animal! I'd vote that whatever's going on with "temporalis" is the same as what's happened here, whether that be Tyrosinase Positive amelanism or "hypomelanism". Are you going to get your paws on some offspring, Shannon?

-Cole

Yep, Thats the plan.

L8r

I believe you were somewhere behind me,lmao!

LOL, not this time bud.I am first and only one in this line.

L8r

But so is the "hypo" coastal,lol.

That I'm aware of, nobody has ever done a skin test on the hypo coastal.
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Darwin Rocks!

In leiu of the test.....

I know I'm a stickler on this but T or - describes a biological method. Without a skin test all you can do is describe phenotype. What I was never able to disern from Bechtel's book was his distinction between hypo and albino? I recall him writing that some hypos are albino and some aren't but he never stipulated how he differentiated the two leaving is to guess.

In this context I think that the coastals and this new eastern could equally be described as albino or hypo. But I would only describe the hypo red milk as a hypo as it has some black.
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Darwin Rocks!

Tony, I understand your t plus/minus arguement, but "lavender albino" exists as a commonly accepted morph name regardless of Bechtel and definition. Problems occur when we "mis name" morphs. We know the first "hypo" coastals were called "albinos", the name was changed to "hypo" but most will admit that it more closely resembles what we accept as "lavender albino".
I have argued that there are existing homologues between species and subspecies with morphs...that morphs(most of the time)fall within predictable parameters. NOTE-only recessive morphs.....

Common morph examples:
red albino
lav albino
anery
whiteside
hypomelanistic

Many of these have multiple genotypes.

Uncommon morph examples:
scaleless
"hypo" red milk
applegate pyro
piebald ball python

These uncommon morphs are again recessive, but for some reason dont fall in "predictable" lines from species to species. Could it be that the "common" morphs are "intentionally" generated and the "uncommon" morphs perhaps genetically damaged??