Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have been looking all over the place trying to find a percentage breakdown (16 and 32 babies) of a triple het x triple het breeding. (Hypo het for albino, het for anery) I have found just about everything else... buddhaboa.com, geneticswizard.com and private breeders next breedings but not the triple x triple. Is there a brick wall with that breeding that I should know about? In an unrelated subject I was wondering how well sunglows are selling. Anyone had any problem selling them? Thanks for your time.

I do these all in my head now and is actually fairly easy for one specific outcome.

Take each morph seperatley. I assume your talking TH (hypo/albino/anery) x TH (same)

Het hypo x het hypo =
3/4 hypo (33% chance super)
1/4 normal

Het Albino x het Albino =
1/4 albino
3/4 normal (66% chance het)

Het Anery x het Anery =
1/4 Anery
3/4 normal (66% chance het)

From there pick an outcome and multiply the associated percentages (remember there must be one factor for each morph even if that specific outcome is visually normal)

Moonglow =
3/4 x 1/4 x 1/4 = 3/64

Snow =
1/4 x 1/4 x 1/4 = 1/64

Sunglow (66% het Anery) =
3/4 x 1/4 x 3/4 = 9/64

Albino (66% het Anery)=
1/4 x 1/4 x 3/4 = 3/64

Ghost (66% het Albino) =
3/4 x 3/4 x 1/4 = 9/64

Anery (66% het Albino) =
1/4 x 3/4 x 1/4 = 3/64

Hypo (66% het Albino and 66% het Anery) =
3/4 x 3/4 x 3/4 = 27/64

Normal (66% het Albino and 66% het Anery) =
1/4 x 3/4 x 3/4 = 9/64

Sum of all the above is 64/64

All done in my head, no paper, no genetics calculator etc.

AND, this method works for ANY combination of as MANY or as FEW morphs as you want... Of course it's easier to pick out one or two desired outcomes than to do each and every possible outcome.

For example Motley Sunglow het Anery x Jungle TH Moonglow

What are the odds of getting a Motley Jungle Moonglow?

Het Motley x normal = 1/2
Het Hypo x Het Hypo = 3/4
Albino x het Albino = 1/2
Het Anery x Het Anery = 1/4
Normal x Het Jungle = 1/2

1/2 x 3/4 x 1/2 x 1/4 x 1/2 = 3/128
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

What a gift you have.

Brian
-----
Brian Gundy

www.for-goodness-snakes.com

you can't have Luna!!

LOL. jk Brian, thanks!!

And NO, you still can't have Luna!!!!
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

It sounded like a tugboat! But it was just Dave tooting his own horn! lol

Totally kidding Dave. Actually, that's really impressive and extremely helpful! I've been looking for a way to predict probabilities down the road for a project I'm working on. I've got a female sharp albino x salmon jungle male and a female sharp sunglow x salmon jungle male (tbd). I'm going to have to figure out the possibility of getting a sharp junglow out of breeding the offspring (hypo jungle het sharps) of each of those pairings.
Thanks for posting!
jb
-----
Jonathan Brady
*You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.*

Well maybe a little...

Seriously though, I've done the punnet square thing and that becomes VERY cumbersome with more than two morphs. I played with it a lot, even creating my own spreadsheet to do up to four morphs. In that process I figured out a much simpler method to how to predict outcomes on multi morph projects that is fairly simple and that works. Just trying to share and spread the word.

"I've got a female sharp albino x salmon jungle male and a female sharp sunglow x salmon jungle male (tbd). I'm going to have to figure out the possibility of getting a sharp junglow out of breeding the offspring (hypo jungle het sharps) of each of those pairings."

Here ya go, Steps #1 and #2 are your original pairs, step #3a assumes step #2 baby used is het Salmon, step #3b assumes step #2 baby used is a super salmon. Have to breed them to really know.

#1 1/2 x 1/2 x 1 = 1/4 Salmon Jungle het sharp
#2 3/4 x 1/2 x 1 = 3/8 Salmon(pos super) Jungle het sharp

#3a Salmon Jungle het sharp x Salmon Jungle het Sharp
Sharp Junglow (pos super Salmon) = 3/4 x 1/2 x 1/4 = 3/32
Sharp Super Junglow (Super Jungle pos super Salmon) =
3/4 x 1/4 x 1/4 = 3/64

#3b Salmon Jungle het sharp x Super Salmon Jungle het Sharp
Sharp Junglow (pos super Salmon) = 1 x 1/2 x 1/4 = 1/8
Sharp Super Junglow (super Jungle pos super Salmon) =
1 x 1/4 x 1/4 = 1/16
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

You are the MAN!
Thanks Dave!
jb
-----
Jonathan Brady
*You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.*

Thanks for the help. I'm not quite sure if I get all of it but i'll study it when it's not 2:30 in the morning. I perused your available page of BRBs. You have some nice animals in there. I used to have 1.1 BRBs until the male died out of the blue. I sold the female for more than I had in the pair and have been kicking myself ever since. I bookmarked your page and will keep an eye out for you next year. (if I spend any more on snakes this year my wife will freak) I'll post my luck with the projects in the works soon.
Paul
Here's what i'll be pairing up in December...
1.0 100% het albino to 0.2 100% het albino
1.0 albino to 0.1 anery (she's 7 1/2 foot... I can't wait!!)
1.0 100% het anery, 66% het albino to 0.1 66% possible het snow
1.0 100% het anery to 0.1 normal/pastel ( I know that sounds wierd but thier last breeding produced some light paradox type markings so i'm repeating it)
The rest is ball python stuff so i'll post that elsewhere.
Good luck to all on your projects!!

>Het hypo x het hypo =
>3/4 hypo (33% chance super)
>1/4 normal
>
>Het Albino x het Albino =
>1/4 albino
>3/4 normal (66% chance het)
>
>Het Anery x het Anery =
>1/4 Anery
>3/4 normal (66% chance het)

Here is an orderly way to work out all possible combinations. Take three strips of paper and draw a bar across the middle of each. Mark the three as I have here.

Strip #1:
3/4 hypo
-----------
1/4 normal

Strip #2:
1/4 albino
-----------
3/4 normal

Strip #3:
1/4 anerythristic
----------------------
3/4 normal

Tape the ends of the strips together to make 3 rings and put the rings on a finger in 1,2,3 order with 3/4 hypo, 1/4 albino, 1/4 anerythristic all showing together (see 1 below). Then rotate strip 3 halfway around the finger to make 2 below. Rotate strip 3 another half turn to its original position, and rotate strip 2 halfway around the finger to make 3 below. Rotate strip 3 another half turn to make 4 below. Rotate strip 3 another half turn to make a full rotation, which makes strip 2 rotate a half turn to make a full rotation, which makes strip 1 move to its second position, giving 5 below. And so on until strip 1 has made a full rotation and the three rings have returned to position 1 below.

1. 3/4 hypo x 1/4 albino x 1/4 anerythristic = 3/64 moonglow
2. 3/4 hypo x 1/4 albino x 3/4 normal = 9/64 sunglow
3. 3/4 hypo x 3/4 normal x 1/4 anerythristic = 9/64 ghost
4. 3/4 hypo x 3/4 normal x 3/4 normal = 27/64 hypo
5. 1/4 normal x 1/4 albino x 1/4 anerythristic = 1/64 snow
6. 1/4 normal x 1/4 albino x 3/4 normal = 3/64 albino
7. 1/4 normal x 3/4 normal x 1/4 anerythristic = 3/64 anerythristic
8. 1/4 normal x 3/4 normal x 3/4 normal = 9/64 normal

In other words, each time any ring makes a full rotation, the next ring to the left also cycles one place in the same direction.

This technique becomes second nature pretty quickly, and the actual rings can be dispensed with. It is much easier than a three locus Punnett square.

Paul Hollander