Reptile & Amphibian Forums

All,

Well Obama is in! The election is over! I am so glad that idiot Bush is gone. What an embarrassment that guy was. From a herp industry perspective here is what concerns me. Even though Obama leans left, he, hopefully, will keep moving towards the middle. He is intelligent and the middle is where fairness, inclusion and intellect lie. Radical left or right views are ignorant and hateful. Although his policies and platforms are on target in the big picture, in my opinion, he still has some negatives. And those negatives lie with his left leaning values as Ernie eluded to in the post below. Most importantly for us is the fact that most academics and AR groups are Obama supporters. So now is the time, more than ever, we need to get organized and protect our rights. This is why we need to be ready to fight to keep things in the middle. The inclusive and fair middle. So the “agenda” got their candidate what are they going to do now? What are we going to do? We need to be ready.

In addition, there are positives with a left leaner in that we will see more environmental protection and land conservation which we should all want for the herps. What we don’t want is “agenda,” banning, and overzealousness. We also want to be heard and have our opinion included in the decision making process. This favors the left who supports public input, although, many radical, egotistical and elitist academic herpers/agency biologists haven’t been given that memo.

This is an opportunity for us because some new and burning issues maybe brought to the table. The issues that concern us may gain more attention. We have been under attack for a number of years and we have plenty to work on without this new situation, however, Obama was the best choice for all we face as a nation in my opinion so it is worth it. USARK has been formed but we don’t know if they will support the entire industry. If they support both the commercial and recreational side of the herp industry we will have everyone under one umbrella. This would be awesome. PARC is going to reach out to the private sector which also gives us an opportunity. More to come on that including the possibility of drafting a Memorandum Of Understanding.

So all in all I think Obama was the correct choice for the country, however, he does have his negatives and those negatives could directly affect our industry. We have opportunities and we need to take advantage of them. We also need to be organized and be ready to fight for our agenda whoever is in power.

FYI: I will not debate whether Obama was the correct choice or not. That argument is moot at this point. The herp industry is full of Democrats, Republicans and Independents and we all need to band together and fight for our rights as private herpers and businesses. We need to put our energy into organizing, forming partnerships, advancing our cause and protecting our rights and privileges.

Welkerii
El Paso, TX

Well, I agree. Sounds reasonable. Are we ready for reason?
Hope so. I'm so tired of all the divisive ideologue fanaticism.
jsc
-----
"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

The liberal media and celebrity endorsers have spoken and the sheep followed. Who's kidding who. If the president can be elected based on this mentality what else can be done ?

You in effect said that PIJAC is too big and too diverse to support herpers, I think it's closer to the truth to say that Pijac is way to small and financially challenged to take up our cause on all fronts.

The word group is a general term used to describe organizations such as USARK , Pijac ,The Humane Society , Peta etc. It applies when your talking about something like Pijac but the major anti ownership organizations aren't groups their large business's that generate hundreds of millions of dollars between them .

A corporation like Peta is huge and diverse. They have their hooks in EVERYTHING . These Anti ownership syndicates don't go out an hire a lawyer they have entire legal teams working full time and lobbyist stationed in DC working on their behalf. The same liberal media and celebrity endorsers that got Obama elected also supports these activist. The only up side right now is that we're not seeing much in the way of being pummeled by the financial and political clout these Anti ownership industry's have built up. Because number one they don't have to and two we're really more of a side job then a priority. That is so far. You want change? We might get it.

As bad as it might be now the reptile industry isn't seeing any pressure compared to what might be right around the corner. We're just getting nickel and dimmed at this point. This is why it's important to try and get done whatever we can get done soon. The best way to do that is simple participation. Owners have to speak up. A good show of hands is our best defense right now. It's pretty much all we have.

At the Federal level US Fish and Game aren't out to stop us if they were it would have been over years ago. By the same token why should the guy in the middle take our side when the other person is making a case for themselves and we don't show up. Some bad things could be headed our way and I really don't know what our chances are but one thing is for sure , Don't expect someone else to do all the fighting for you.

Groups like Pijac and Usark can help us win battles and it's good we have them but if it comes down to a real war .........

The best weapon to have in a legislative show down is money. Unity is good but unless groups like Pijac and Usark can go out and gain the support of non animal related industry's and supporters they will be completely out gunned. Hopefully these groups can keep private keepers informed of what's going on. The best thing private keepers can do is speak up.

Ernie Eison
Westwood Acres Reptile Farms Inc.

Ernie,

While I won’t address your Obama bashing and right-wing bias I will address your herp industry statements. I see your points about what we are up against but we have to start somewhere. It would be great if people took the time to learn all the issues the herp industry faces and then went and talked to their reps and spoke out but don’t count on it. The majority of folks in our industry are our customers, the pet owners. These folks don’t understand the issues. They need guidance. This is where an all inclusive national herp group can help. By forming an all inclusive herp group we can also begin to collect revenue for the fight. If we got the tens of thousands of herp owners, breeders, dealers, collectors, hobbyists and other herp businesses involved and contributing we could have a good foundation built to begin the fight and we would be organized. Then we could seek non-industry money. We have to start somewhere. It would be great if some rich herper somewhere came out of the woodwork and donated some decent starting capital.

You maybe correct about my statements concerning PIJAC. I do know the represent more than just the herp industry. The dog and cat issues are probably their biggest concern. Either way we need a group focused strictly on herps at the national, state and local levels. PIJAC, for whatever reason, decided not to help here in Texas with our recent “new” herp laws. When I spoke to Bill Brant he told me that they just didn’t have the resources to fight all the “new” herp laws at the national level much less the state and local level. They are stepping up on the boa and python issue and that is great. However, the state and local level is where we are losing (except in NC thanks to NCARK) and we are being chipped away at. Having worked with and been educated by academics this is their modus operandi: The chip-away or baby steps approach. And in recent years they have added the “precautionary principle” and “best available science.” We need a well-funded, all inclusive herp ONLY group to fight for our agenda.

This leads us to USARK. Andrew Wyatt and NCARK defeated the AR agenda in NC. But this was only related to certain herp industry issues like possession of certain species, animal health and public safety. Thus they had some academic support. But the herp industry has bigger more polarizing issues like: wild collection and the sale of wild caught, which many academics are against. The new herp group in Texas, HCU, chose not to support the collection of wild caught for the purposes of sale, thus, in my opinion, sold out the importers and collectors who supply this industry, the pet industry, researchers and educators. Thus they can’t support the entire herp industry as a whole. USARK has not released their position statements as of this post. In order to support the entire industry they must support the commercial and acquisition side of the industry. Time will tell.

Making friends with academics will help us in the long run. Strange as that sounds it will be required. They are in power. As I have stated before, Polly Conrad and SWPARC want our input. It remains to be seen what they will do with it but at least they want it. That is a start. This is the perfect opportunity for us to speak out. If we can mend the divide and work together for herp conservation (wise use – needs defining) we can use the partnership to advance our cause. And we might gain an ally in the war with the AR groups. How? Well, even though it seems that academics and AR groups are in cahoots remember that AR groups are against the use of animals for scientific purposes. Thus those two groups can never be total partners. If we can, finally, convince academia and their supporters of the benefits of the herp industry and managing herps wisely w/o bans we might be able to build a partnership. Not only could this partnership work against the radical AR agenda we could also work together to stop habitat destruction, pollution, human population growth and the other major herp conservation issues that threaten herp species survival. Could be a win/win.

All in all your points are well taken. Apathy is a major problem within the industry. We need leaders, within the industry, to push our agenda but first we need an agenda. I am hopeful that USARK comes through with strong statements against AR leaning academics and full support of wild acquisition and sales (with bag limits IF necessary). We will have to see where all this leads us. One thing is for sure, PETA with a 25 million dollar a year annual budget won’t be slowing down. We can either dig in and fight or watch it all go bye-bye.

Welkerii
El Paso, TX

From what I can tell, political ideology has taken a back seat in this discussion. Both political persuasions seem to have found some common ground on issues, means, and methods. That's a good thing.
There are many more pressing issues our government needs to address that take center stage, prior to any Anti-keep agenda from being addressed.
I'm optimistic we have some breathing room for organization.
jsc

-----
"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer