Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Three days ago i found my 3 legged female BD very sick in her terrarium. The fat deposits on her head were gone, two deep holes replaced them.She didnt want to move or to eat and her colour was awfull, a sick dark brown.

I force fed her some baby food but she vomited it all and became even more sick. Pratically dead.She stoped moving, closed her eyes, and i could even turn her belly up without opposition from her side. Her body was dark and limp.

I put her in my bathroom,where any other pet or human being would disturb her physically or emotionally, i increased the level of humidity by turning on the tap and i fed her 1/3 coffee spoon of VERY WELL DILUTED Pedyalite (1/10) mixed with a tiny little bit of Centrium ( gray) and Ayurveda Liver Tonic.But i said her good bye before going to work monday morning because i was sure when i return home she would be already in heaven.

To my surprise when i came home monday evening she was still alive.Closed eyes, motionless but still breathing.I gave her another 1/3 cofee spoon of the same potion.But again i was sure she would not be alive next morning. But tuesday morning she was still breathing so i force fed her the same drink and tuesday night i did the same. To my surprise tuesday night i found several eggs around her limp body.She had laid them.

Today morning ( wednesday 5th November)i found her still tired but alert, her eyes were wide open and she was trying to walk. I gave her a few mealworms that she devored!

Well today ill not say good bye to her because im sure tomorrow she will be alive and better!

I just wanted to know what happened to her. Egg binding? Dehydration? Too much sexual harrassment from the male ( although i keep them separated she still can see him and he doesnt stop bullying her)?.Thanks Flavia

Hmmm....how quicly did this happen? A weight loss that dramatic takes time to occur.

Could you give a complete run down of your set up?

- tank size?
- substrate?
- Basking temp?
- UVB bulb brand? how close to the dragon? how old?
- supplements?
- Diet?

There could be a lot of things going on with your dragon. It sounds like she is in pretty bad shape...I would find a good herp vet and get her seen. Bloodwork can be done to evaluate if an infection is present, etc. A fecal sample can be done (if you can get her to eat enough to produce a fecal).

In the meantime - make sure she is warm, with a nice basing spot of 110-115degrees, and has ample acess to high quality UVB. I would soak her daily, to help maintain her hydration and continue to offer food. Insects such as silkworms that are easy to eat and digest and extremely nutritious would be a good idea.
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1.1 Bearded Dragons
2.2 Leopard Geckos
1.0 Uromastyx (Mali)
1.1 Corn snakes
0.1 Mexican Black Kingsnake
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake
1.0 Rosy Boa
1.1 Green Anoles
1.1 House Geckos
0.0.2 Flying Geckos
0.0.1 Red Eye Tree Frog

Hi

Thanks for answering my message.

My girl lost her head fat deposits when i put her outdoors. The temp was high and the level of humidity low but i included in her outdoor cage a small wooden box as a hidding place and a large bowl of water. She didnt use as far as i know any of them.She is very easy to become stressed and paralysed by fear.

When i noticed the fat deposits were gone i put her back indoors.Her indoor cage is huge, 4x4 and high ( around 7 f high i think).She loves it and was very content in there.Eating and walking around. I dont use substrate only the iron bars ( like a birds cage) but she is used to them and dont have problems to walk over the bars. Her weight is never too high because she is an egg-laying machine.When her weight is over 360 grs she re-starts to lay eggs and the weight drops to 300 grs.

A few days ago i noticed she was digging and digging but her belly was so flat i didnt think she wanted to lay eggs again. I put her in a box full of vermiculite but she didnt lay any egg. Next day i put the male in a cage next to her cage. She didnt like it because the male doesnt stop threatening her. The other day i found her looking sick and tired and when she vomited the food i force fed her her condition became worse.

Its spring now in Brasilia ( Capital of Brazil)and the temp during the day is above 90.Indoors the ambiance temp must be over 80 and besides that i put inside all my lizards cages a wooden heating box.They lay on the top of it when they are feeling cold.All my lizards love their heating boxes.

The UVB light i use i think its the best one. The brand is ULTRABRIGHT OSRAM 300 ww.It is made for human use, to tan the skin.

As i mixed her greens with infant cereal (rich in vitamins) and soya milk (also with vitamins)i dont give her supplements.She likes greens and raw meat!But the raw meat i give her is the same i cook for my family.

When she is totally recovered ill try to keep her in a different room where the male will not be able to harass her. I think this is her major health problem.

Whats your opinion?Tks Flavia

I read that egg binding may be caused by joined eggs. My 3 legs female, the one that almost died a few days ago, laid a few joined eggs the first day i found here 3/4 dead and today again. Perhaps that´s the reason she became depressed, inactive, and lethargic and almost died.

Another thing: I read that lizards never lay eggs if they dont find an appropriate nest.Thats not true. My leo gecko female and my BD female lay eggs wherever and whenever they feel like doing it. The joined eggs i found in my bathroom were laid on the white marble floor.

There is a high risk of egg binding when a proper nesting site is not available. When desperate some lizards will just lay eggs anywhere. Eggs grow as they mature, while she is looking for a nest site the eggs are growing inside her. They are absorbing a lot of moisture from her body also. That is why the nest substrate is always to be kept moist because the eggs will pull moisture from the substrate. They are also coated with a lubricant inside her body. This is what makes them stick together, either inside her body if she is dehydrated or outside on the ground of in a nest.

Raw meat is not suitable for a Bearded Dragon. Meat protein is not the same composition as insect protein and there for should not be fed as a staple.

I don't mean to be critical, but it seems you are making a lot of husbandry decisions that are outside of the accepted standards for this species. I would reevaluate these decisions.

Food Choice
UVB (needs UVB testing)
Temps. (needs proper measurements)
Supplementation

I have a dragon that laid 7 clutches last year totaling almost 200 eggs. She is a large female weighing over 700 grams. After 7 clutches she lost less than 100 grams. When they are laying eggs they should be given constant access to food and water in the daytime. Without access to a male and at her size, I'd be real surprised if you female lays anywhere near this many eggs.

I would recommend bringing her to the vet right away. I have had dragons get an ultrasound before to detect egg issues. You could also consider having her spayed although I don't recommend this.

Concerning my husbandry i think im doing the right thing giving my beardies lots of greens, exposing them to the best uvb light available on the market and keeping the room temperature at 80 and the basking spot at 95F .

I read that too many inscts are not good for beardies.Am I wrong?

you have her in a wire cage? As in wires on the floor or just sides? How big are the openings?

A 7' tall cage is no good for a bearded dragon..unless you have different levels and separate enclosures so it is more like a stacked cage with two or more separate sections, one on top of the other.

4'x4' of floor space is quite large for a single bearded dragon.

Make sure that light you use for UVB specifically says UVB rays are produced and how much. Tanning bulbs for humans are used in very close contact, probably within 10" or less between the bulb and surface so if you have them set up 7' above the basking area, your dragons are unlikely getting much if any UVB rays.

As your interior temps are 80F air temps are fine but you still need a basking spot reaching 115F with areas that are cooler in the cage your dragon can go to.

Half starving your dragon so she wont' lay eggs is rediculous. Let her eat all she will and gain the weight she needs to be healthy. If she wants to lay 6 clutches of eggs, fertile or otherwise, just make sure she has plenty of calcium in her diet and proper exposure to UVB rays. Take her out in the mornings to bask in natural sunlight then taker her back inside when it gets too hot.

Having proper hides in the outdoor enclosure and plenty of cover will allow her to feel more secure. Use planks and cover half the top of her outside cage, or leantoos...a large open area would make her feel insecure and in danger of being the next passing bird's meal.

Now, she sounds quite sick and a vet visit will be necessary to ensure she doesn't have more eggs inside of her she can't lay and to give her injections to boost her blood calcium etc may be needed, as well as being tested for parasites.
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PHLdyPayne

I agree with the others - i think there are some issues with the husbandry that should be re-evaluate...

- A UVB bulb that is marketed for reptiles is probably a better idea than the human one. Simply because the reptile bulbs have been tested and we know that they work. The repti-sun 10.0 is a great bulb. As mentioned before, with a tank that high you may be having issues with her getting the proper temps and UVB. Using a high basking spot so she can get closer to the bulbs, or hanging the bulbs inside the tank wold work.

- A digital thermometer to measure basking temps, and an elevated basking spot of 110-115degrees is essential.

- Raw meat should be offered rarely, if ever. Insects are a much better option. Check the nutrition section at www.beautifuldragons.com to see some good options for beardie feeding. I don't know about the cereal and so forth - i've never heard of anyone doing htat before. Since you are having such issues with your girl, you may want to consider using the more traditional and tested method of supplementing with calcium and vitamin supplements. Low calcium may be plaguing your dragon, especially since she is an "egg laying machine"

A vet visit is in order at this point - her rapid decline is scary! I would definately re-evaluate some of your husbandry parameters as well.

Good luck with her!
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1.1 Bearded Dragons
2.2 Leopard Geckos
1.0 Uromastyx (Mali)
1.1 Corn snakes
0.1 Mexican Black Kingsnake
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake
1.0 Rosy Boa
1.1 Green Anoles
1.1 House Geckos
0.0.2 Flying Geckos
0.0.1 Red Eye Tree Frog

I m not half starving my beardie to prevent her from laying eggs!lol!!

She is so thin because she is difficult to eat.She is moody one day she eats a lot another day she didnt eat at all.

The UVB lamp is placed around 1 foot from her basking spot, not 7 f high!lol!

Yes, i do have two digital thermomethers to check the temp.

Yes, she has a cute wooden house as a hidding place.

Flavia

1- 10 years old green iguana
2- 5 years old monkey tail skinks,
2- 1 year old giant leopard geckos.
2- 5 years old uromastyx
1- two years old black and white tegus
5- 6 months old babis beardies.
2- 3 years old adult bearded dragons.