Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello,
As much as I love my gaigeae, I've been looking for something a bit more colorful to add to the collection for a while. Today I got this yearling L. t. micropholis from Don Shores. Don tells me this specimen was produced by Bill Lamar, but had heard that it came from Ecuador... are there currently any micropholis in the U.S. from anywhere besides Popayan, Colombia? I think maybe that since it's an Ecuadorian milksnake, he assumed it came from Ecuador. Either way, I'm a very happy customer, and will get some better pics up once he's settled in a bit. He's already over three feet long and eats like a champ, so he's well on his way to becoming a monster milksnake. Now all he needs is a name... and a girlfriend!

Nate

Shores Enuff Snakes

Absolutely beautiful -- let's see it stretched out a bit.
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Jerry Kruse

"Fall is my favorite season in Los Angeles, watching the birds change color and fall from the trees."
David Letterman

Very nice!

From what I have heard all the micropholis in the US come from 1.1 wild caught adults which were from 2 different places in Columbia. I could be wrong.
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Jon Wedow
Sharp Dressed Snakes

Not to rain on anybody's parade but its a man made mutt.And it wasn't produced by Bill Lamar.Bill doesn't breed anything.It was produced by Nathan and the adults that Nathan had where the product of a wild caught femal;e from Ecuador and a male from columbia that was more andean than it was micropholis.

It is what it is.

Shannon

Say it ain't so, Shannon! Next thing you know, you'll we'll be hearing that albino sinaloans came from nelsoni, albino hondurans are part polyzona, and the anerys were spawned by stuarti!

Just goofing, and of course you're absolutely right, this guy was produced by Nate Wells and does have a bit of Andean heritage. Hopefully he'll be along with the full backstory and some pictures of his breeders soon. I've changed the subject line to reflect the fact that I've actually joined the slightly less exclusive Micropholis x Andesiana Club. Like I said, either way, it's a cool snake, and hey, at least my gaigeae are still pure, right?

Nate

The sad part is that the hobby Hondos ARE likely influenced with polyzona unfortunately.....and to add insult to injury your line of gaegiae are actually influenced via a seldom seen goliath garter snake subspecies from Guatemala.

JUST KIDDING!!!

Sheesh man, I didn't want to be the one to drop that chunk of info on you initially, but it's dead-on accurate info. And it's the closest to true micropholis that we've ever gotten. I recall back in like '95 how Steve Osborne was working on getting some legit micros into the US but it just didnt pan out for him. Also lots of red tape and draconian laws added to the mix to create a fruitless endeavor. I certainly hope that changes one day as I'll be one of the first in line amongst many who share this forum in getting some. Regardless, it's a smokin specimen and I hope it grows immensely fer ya.
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Jerry Kruse

"Fall is my favorite season in Los Angeles, watching the birds change color and fall from the trees."
David Letterman

Garter snakes, wow... at least now I can quit worrying about how inbred they are!

I appreciate your sensitivity, but the bad news broke about a year ago when I made a post asking about a snake owned by Scott Ballard (see link below) and some more details surfaced in the replies to another post made a few days later. I figured there might be a small chance that something new had been imported since then, or maybe Don had some specimens that nobody else knew about, but I wasn't exactly getting my hopes up, if you know what I mean. Anyway, I've been waiting for either an exceptional Andean or an affordable micropholis to come along for quite a while, and now it looks like I've got a little of both. At least he's mostly micropholis, and only has 20 red body rings, that's as good as it gets in the U.S. for now. I wonder what ever happened to the micros that were around in the '70s... I've seen posts referring to ones that people had decades ago. Maybe those turned out to be Andeans too!

Nate
L.t.micropholis X L.t.andesiana

Nate,
As you've probably already figured out, that post of my male micropholis X andesiana you mentioned is of the same line as the male you just got from Don Shores

The pair I got in 2004 both "keyed" out to micropholis. Both have 17 red body rings (RBR). Later I found out that siblings to my pair from 2004 had as high as 22-23 RBR, so that confirmed this line was intergrades and not pure. Williams actually reported in his milksnake monograph that micropholis X andesiana intergrades he examined had a range of 17-25 RBR. Then more recently the information surfaced about the origin of the original breeders.

The lowland Ecuadorian micropholis you mentioned back from the 1970's were indeed true micropholis. They were more orange and had RBR in the range of 10-18 as described by Williams. I believe they originated out of coastal Guayaquil, Ecuador. Actually, my 2004 adults are getting more orange on them as they age, hence the micropholis influence coming through even though they still are intergrades.

While this line you just bought the male from has historically been called "micropholis", it may be more fitting to refer to them in the hobby as just South American milksnakes, since the original adults originated from Colombia and Ecuador. That may reduce further confusion as to their correct identity.

BTW, I like your sense of humor Definitely a good thing to have!!

Thanks,
Scott

and I hope this clear and concise information will help put an end to any confusion on the subject now and at anytime in the future.
Thanks very much for your response.
It was good talking with you this morning, hope you start to feel better soon buddy.
Nathan

when I had received the animals(adult breeding group)back in 2004 from Doherty/Lamar, I was informed that these were indeed true L.t. micropholis. Babies were produced for three years and sold as such. Only recently was the true locality of the original adults discovered, which then determined that the parents to the adults I had were both from Ecuador and Colombia, making them andesiana X micropholis.
Nathan Wells

Hey Nate,
Did you get Don's e-mail in regards to the confusion on the origins of these animals? Good looking snake, I knew it looked kind of familiar.
Nathan Wells

Not even close to the truth.Read my responce above.

L8r Shannon

I know when I bought the Micropholis I was told the adults were from Bill Lamar and that they were from Ecuador. If I would have known what I know now I never would have bought them at that high of a price. I guess I should read the forum more often.