Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am borrowing a male boa from a friend this winter to breed with one of my females. I have had it for two weeks now and is still being quarantined. Today, I was cleaning his cage and noticed a few dead mites. I did not find any alive, probably because the first thing I did when I brought him home was give him a spray of permectrin as a general precaution.

Anyways, the question is, should I keep holding on to this boa in quarantine and keep treating him for mites so I can breed him after...or is it not worth the trouble and just give it back to him?

He is a normal being bred to my normal is it is nothing I have been anticipating for so long, although it would stil be nice to have another pair to breed. What would you do?

I'd send it back, and I'd get a new friend that didn't give me a boa with mites too.

If somebody sent me a loaner with mites, I'd send it back. Your friend owes you an apology.
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Snake room janitor

If someone loaned me a boa with mites I'd be pissed. IMO not worth the trouble and seriously not worth sending any babies the other persons way.

What if either you were not that careful with quarantine, had not noticed them or some other way had one or more manage to get into your collection.

BTW, speaking of mites Nick....... Your boy was clean as a whistle, not one single sign of mites!!! You are exactly the sort of keeper I enjoy doing breeding loans with!!!
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

.....

i,d send it back also, i can't believe your friend gave it to you with mites.
greg c

I'm amazed that anyone would allow a Boa with mites or any problem they new of to go out as a breeder loan.
This would make me super nervous and really PO'd !
I would not use this animal.
. . . . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz
Boas By Klevitz

The animal sounds like it's in better care with you! I would definitely give that animal a full 90days in quarintine before putting it with a female! As far as the person you got it from, you might want to let them know in a professional manner what you have found so they can treat their collection! Some of the guys on here act like they have never delt with mites! It's part of keeping snakes as long as you deal with it properly. At some point if you do this long enough you'll have some type of experience with them.Don't get me wrong though a mite free collection is of major importence for a healthy colony! Good luck!

Aren't you glad you treated him/her when you got it!

Al Brown/Brown's Boas

I think I am half and half on this one, I'd want to send it back and give them an earful, but at the same time... it happens. I would probably do what you suggested, I'd let them know (still give them a little earful since a friend doesn't do that to a friend knowingly) and treat him myself if they didn't want him sent back. Although, if a collection has mites, what else could be wrong with the persons animals? Especially with how easily mites can be treated when you know what you're doing and do it right?
From experience, I have a good friend who owns a shop and has quite the inventory at home as well, very experienced with nice animals. However, when I pick up a snake out of the shop itself, 50% of the time I end up finding mites while quarantining. Even recently, picking snakes from a few of his recent shipments from various places, one of the two I took home had them, and they came in with them. So I believe it is very common, maybe not amongst some of us here, or very high end breeders with sterling reputations to protect, but especially at shops where you have new animals in and out like crazy. I've seen them treating for them too, but with that kind of traffic, gets tough. I don't know if your friend owns a store, a home collection is easier to manage, but mites do happen as you say. I still worry about what else could be floating around his collection (if it is a small collection) if he cannot manage mites, or the person's experience even, if they don't even notice that they have them at all.
Just my two cents!
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Steph S.
Boas...
1.1 Albino boas (Loki & Hope)
1.4 07 Het. albino boas (Petty & Lady,Sierra,Madeline,Lola)
0.1 Reverse stripe poss. het albino (Cookie)
0.1 Salmon/hypo (Scarlet)
0.1 Anery poss. het snow (Missy)
1.0 Anery (Reno)
1.0 Probable Super Salmontine(Kahn)
0.1 DH Sunglow (Bonnie)
1.1.1 Hypo het anery
1.0.1 Het. Anery (Guy & ?)
0.3 Normals (Ophelia, Sasha, & Lulu)
1.0 Surinames (Solomon & Surreal(deceased)
1.3 Hog Isles (Mr.Orange & Peaches, Tang, Isis)
0.0.1 Central American (Sassy)
1.0 ATB (Satan... seriously!)
Pythons...
2.1 GTPs (B., Monty & Jewel)
0.0.3 BPs (MJ, Precious, Houdini)
1.2 Carpet Pythons (Jackson, Charlotte, & Cassandra)
0.1 Blood python (Akaia)
Misc.
1.1 Mandarin Ratsnakes (Jack & Jill)
1.0 Boxer/Pitt Mutt (Tyson)

You have to give the person a chance to make it right, so offer to let them come over and clean all your cages for the length of time it takes to eradicate mites with your choice of methods! : ) And you'll see right away if they knew they had them or not too, just by asking. If they didn't know they will be appropriately apologetic and they will vollunteer, at which point you can tell them you're kidding since they are far enough away to ship. If they are not really your friend (i.e. they knew and sent you a boa with mites anyway) they will tell you where to stick it, and that will solve your other problem too, a bad friend. You already got him back though, by spraying his boa with permectrin.

Never spray a snake with permectrin, it's dangerous, but don't take my word for this, read this:
http://www.bimsds.us/BIMSDS/msds/Permectrin_WS_msds.pdf

Likewise you can't spray snakes with any insecticide. Not even Provent-A-Mite or Black Knight II can be sprayed on a snake either, and they are FDA approved, very well tested, and much less toxic. I couldn't even find anecdotal info on snakes and permectrin, just this one lonely article by a vet in KY which just gives the proticol for use in the Veterinary Hospital and says don't treat on the weekends, so you can monitor signs of toxicity:
http://www.pennyroyalvet.com/admin/uploads/newsletter2.pdf
But even it says: "Remember, NO INSECTICIDE, including Permectrin, is tested or approved for use in reptiles. Any use of insecticide in reptiles is at the owner's risk." Not even Provent-A-Mite or Black Knight II can be sprayed on a snake.

I'd send him back. I wouldn't do any trades or accept any boas from that person again either.

Frankly I'd be angry if I loaned you a boa and you shot it with Permectrin. It's anything but a "general precaution." As far as I am concerned you both messed up.
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Caden Chapman
slithering.serpents@gmail.com
http://slitheringserpents.com

That is actually the vet I go to. A little on the expensive side, but really really knows their stuff. They pull out all the stops to save the animals. Specialize in birds and reptiles mostly. Plus the husband of Dr. Z is a herpetological researcher in his own right. Highly recommend for anyone in the Lexington, KY area.
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Travis Rose
Lazy S Snake Ranch
2.5 Boa constrictors (various morphs)
4.6 Kenyan sand boas (various morphs)
1.2 Indian sand boas
0.3 Dogs
0.3 Cats
0.1 Very understanding & pregnant wife
1.0 Toddler (already a snake lover)

That's interesting. I'll give it a little more weight in my mind.

But I still would never spray that stuff on a snake I love. Recently I sprayed it on a dog I love, and she hopped in my bed and got it all over, so I started looking at what these chemicals are all about. There's so many ways to deal with mites that are non-toxic, it's just not necessary imo. Did you read the articles I cited? Did you read especially the warning about getting it on the skin? The skin is a huge organ of absorption, you know.

Did you talk to this particular vet about using that stuff topically, and ask him if any research was done on it? That stuff is a known carcinogen. You might find out in 10 years all your snakes have cancer or something. My point is you don't have to see a toxic reaction immediately, to cause harm. Frankly I think even Vapona is better than spraying insecticide right on a snake, and we stopped using it around 20 years ago, and we never put it directly on snakes either.

Just some thoughts, thanks for the info.
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Caden Chapman
slithering.serpents@gmail.com
http://slitheringserpents.com