Reptile & Amphibian Forums

has anyone experienced, in this case aspen bedding, very tiny white bugs in their cages? Anyone who may be using aspen, and possibly other wood shavings for that matter, look closely for very tiny white dots on the cage sides either inside or out. These tiny little dots move, and although do not seem to bother the snakes (that I know of anyway....) I am still questioning whether or not I want to continue its use.

I noticed this a few weeks ago while I was assist-feeding a baby z, and after placing the snake down to eat and waiting for it to consume the item, i just decided to let my eyes wander and I noticed every now and then these little dandruff-like dots on the sides of the shoe box. And then they moved!!

Now my husbandry could not get any more particular as I clean my cages weekly and use diluted Nolvasan in addition. My only conclusion is that these little white buggers are coming from the aspen. Any other experiences or observations from wood shavings users past or present???
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Jerry Kruse

"Fall is my favorite season in Los Angeles, watching the birds change color and fall from the trees."
David Letterman

Jerry,

As you know I only use papertowels and newspaper in my enclosures, but it's common to find critters in aspen and other substrates as well. I have heard that microwaving the substrate prior to use will kill these bugs and their eggs..

This is just one of the many reasons i only use paper!

** PLEASE note, I have never tried the microwaving thing personally, but it's worth a shot!

Talk to you soon,

~ Mike Russo

Thanks bud......yeah, I may very well use this last bale (I think I spelled that correctly) and go back to using paper towels altogether. My wife would probably not appreciate my use of the microwave in this way, LOL, and the old Beavis and Butthead cartoons come to mind from eons ago with their deep-fryer and microwave antics. I just might get into way too much trouble all-around.

If I dont talk to you then I'll see you at the WP show. Chin up man. Later.
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Jerry Kruse

"Fall is my favorite season in Los Angeles, watching the birds change color and fall from the trees."
David Letterman

So, lets get this straight?? Your wife is OK with the dozens of snakes, lizards, and geckos in the house and pinkies, mice and lizards in the freezer. But, putting some wood chips in the micro is off limits.. I guess i will just never figure out chicks??

See you on the 30th!

~ Mike Russo

I think it's the separation of food preparation and the hobby-related stuff. Sure do wish I had a man-cave though.....LOL.
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Jerry Kruse

"Fall is my favorite season in Los Angeles, watching the birds change color and fall from the trees."
David Letterman

I do love my Man Cave!

~ Mike Russo

LOMA that i wanted but it turned out to be a keeper? Maybe NEXT year......? (insert Jeopardy final round tune.....lol)

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Jerry Kruse

"Fall is my favorite season in Los Angeles, watching the birds change color and fall from the trees."
David Letterman

I tried the microwave just now....

the bale didn't fit and the microwave fell off the wall and broke?...LOL...I pushed too hard...???

....J/K ......

it would actually take some of us days to microwave that much mulch......bugs are not that much trouble....

....if you really hate them and want to use aspen or cypress...you can also just pre-apply PAM to mulch on bags...take some out of one bale and as layers are thrown into second bag just spray some PAM on each layer...it will soak in and dry and you can have treated mulch for use....and it will kill any snake mites and all also ...

good luck
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......this will only hurt alot..........

LOL......

Man, you had me cracking up with this man. My wife wondered why I was having such a belly laugh, and when she read the thread she was crackin' up too. Great sense of humor man, just great. LOL. We need more of that 'round here.

I think I'm going to just stick to paper towels after I finish this last bale I purchased of aspen. It's too bad because I really do like aspen for the bottom of my cages. But the thought of those bugs just bothers me. I wonder if lab grade wood beddings are w/o the little stow-aways since lab grade stuff is supposedly heat treated. But a roll of Bounty is looking easier and cheaper all the time.

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Jerry Kruse

"Fall is my favorite season in Los Angeles, watching the birds change color and fall from the trees."
David Letterman

These two Snakes are incredible!

The head/face patterns on this one is really nice... you should call that one "Luchador"

Yours and Mike's animals are definitely on my "gotta have" list!

Thank you Z,

funny you should say "Luchador" considering where they come from. I've always loved Mexican herps, and the rare southern form (Sierra de San Pedro Martir) of L. z. agalma are no exception. Their head dress can range from simple to downright amazing. Here are a couple more shots.....

Martir snake on display at a recent herp show (male)...

same male at home all snug......

female from the post....

and another female.....

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Jerry Kruse

"Fall is my favorite season in Los Angeles, watching the birds change color and fall from the trees."
David Letterman

I was Reading about microwaves and cooking i thought you were refering to PAM (non-stick spray)?!?! maybe coat the outside of the bag so it glides into the microwave.....but the Pi$$ off A Mite spray is an excellent idea

first, I resent that... second, I LOVE my snakes, but I don't want anything related to them near my microwave... That's a little to close to comfort for me... as for the freezer full of mice, I just keep telling myself the temps to cold for anything that'll kill me to survive...lol

Call me weird, (my boyfriend does everyday) but that's how I fell about it...
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~Maggie~

"Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious."
1.1 Cal Kings (Spot and Fry)
1.0 Florida King
1.0 Ball Python (Mitch)
0.1 Red Belly Piranha (Fluffy)
1.0 Australian Shepherd (Spooky)
1.0 Springer Spaniel/Beagle mix (Snoopy)
0.1 German Shep mix (Shadow)
0.1 Cat (Echo)

Sorry about that Maggie!

~ Mike Russo

It's ok Mike, no hard feelings... I was givin ya a hard time...
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~Maggie~

"Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious."
1.1 Cal Kings (Spot and Fry)
1.0 Florida King
1.0 Ball Python (Mitch)
0.1 Red Belly Piranha (Fluffy)
1.0 Australian Shepherd (Spooky)
1.0 Springer Spaniel/Beagle mix (Snoopy)
0.1 German Shep mix (Shadow)
0.1 Cat (Echo)

Yes... I've seen them before... they feed on feces/waste matter/uneaten food and they congregate around the water bowl... you may even see groups of them in the water (at the bottom... due to drowning).

I use an Aspen/Pine mixture ( yes I know they say pine is no good... but I haven't had a problem with using it exclusively or mixing it)... and I noticed them on a colored water bowl one day! I changed all the bedding clean off all the snakes cleaned all the cages... and a few weeks later I still saw them!

I actually got a handle on them by cleaning the bowls more often (2-3X a week rather than every weekend) and mixing a few drops of "mite/flee killer" in my odor remover... I'd spray a spoiled area (after I removed the bulk of the soiled matter)...

I did not notice them on my snakes... and I didn't seen any strange behaviors either (like thrashing around in the cages like they would if they were infested with "black mites".)

While they do seem harmless... I like to keep everything in tip top shape! so they had to go!... I can't do the newspaper thing... doesn't absorb odor the way I would like... and I sometimes have no choice but to neglect my collection for a few days if I have some studying to do...

good luck!

~ZF

for confirming that I'm not seeing things. What a pain in the keester. I'm crazy about my stuff, but I can't imagine giving them THAT much attention. Maybe if I had more free time. Maybe if I had my own microwave....

Either way, I'm strongly leaning towards discontinuing aspen. I appreciate your input. Too bad, I really like the stuff and have been using it consistently since building my collection back up beginning in '05. Nice caging system by the way. Is that self-constructed?
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Jerry Kruse

"Fall is my favorite season in Los Angeles, watching the birds change color and fall from the trees."
David Letterman

Thanx...

Yes it is "Self constructed"... i don't really know the 1st thing about woodwork/architecture... but i can build a rack/cage/multi-level enclosure with the right precut pieces a drill and some drywall screws!

i do sketch out the over all design and get proper dimensions and such 1st... but there is still a lot I'd like to learn about "wood work" ... some day... i'll take the time to learn more!

~Z

Off topic... but I liked the rack and was wondering how are you heating the enclosures?

I have 11" Flexwatt Heat Tape running along the back... it works very well.

~ZF

I switched to Premier Pet that I'm pickin up from tractor supply from carefresh bedding and I haven't noticed anything bug-like in any of my 4 cages... maybe I'm just lucky, but I'm thinkin if I liked aspen I'd try a differnt brand before I quit using it completly
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~Maggie~

"Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious."
1.1 Cal Kings (Spot and Fry)
1.0 Florida King
1.0 Ball Python (Mitch)
0.1 Red Belly Piranha (Fluffy)
1.0 Australian Shepherd (Spooky)
1.0 Springer Spaniel/Beagle mix (Snoopy)
0.1 German Shep mix (Shadow)
0.1 Cat (Echo)

I use an Aspen/Pine mixture ( yes I know they say pine is no good... but I haven't had a problem with using it exclusively or mixing it)...

Who says that pine is no good and why?

I have been using it since I started keeping snakes and never had a problem associated with pine. Just wondering what is supposed to be bad about pine shavings?

Supposedly Pine is regarded along the same line as Cedar because of their aromatic oils.

If you read up on types of bedding they are both frowned upon... it's said that these oils cause respiratory problems.

A looooong time ago I used Red Cedar in a hatchling enclosure and it nearly killed the animal... the snake was sluggish and it's body was very limp and it was shaking (like seizures)... at the time i didn't know cedar was poisonous to snakes so i read up bedding in general and it really is dangerous stuff! So i took the snake off the stuff, syringed some water through the snake, (in hopes of diluting any toxins it may have ingested/inhaled) and within a week it was back to normal, striking at me and eating everything in sight.

Prior to that i was using pine exclusively and had never that problem or anything along those lines, but the literature pretty much groups them in the same category.

Yeah I always knew that cedar was toxic but never heard that about pine shavings.

Well at least me and my snakes have not read that.

are supposed to be terrible for pets because of the oils in the wood... They cause an odor which is great to the human, but imagine living in a cedar dresser for any length of time... The odor is strong enough to cause serious discomfort to rodents like mice, gerbils, and hamsters, so I can't imagine it'd be any better for snakes...

I personally avoid anything with any type of odor to it just for my animals personal comfort...
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~Maggie~

"Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious."
1.1 Cal Kings (Spot and Fry)
1.0 Florida King
1.0 Ball Python (Mitch)
0.1 Red Belly Piranha (Fluffy)
1.0 Australian Shepherd (Spooky)
1.0 Springer Spaniel/Beagle mix (Snoopy)
0.1 German Shep mix (Shadow)
0.1 Cat (Echo)

I'm not all about the pine, I won't give my pets something I can't stand the smell of... But whatever works for you... I really liked the carefresh, but since it got too expensive, the bags of Premier Pet aspen bedding from Tractor Supply work well for me...
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~Maggie~

"Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious."
1.1 Cal Kings (Spot and Fry)
1.0 Florida King
1.0 Ball Python (Mitch)
0.1 Red Belly Piranha (Fluffy)
1.0 Australian Shepherd (Spooky)
1.0 Springer Spaniel/Beagle mix (Snoopy)
0.1 German Shep mix (Shadow)
0.1 Cat (Echo)

I have those little bugs in my aspen too. I find them especially in the cages where the snakes tend to make a bigger mess. One water spill and the bugs are everywhere. I started to spray equate bedding spray in the bottom of the tub before I add substrate and a little after. That has seemed to do the job. I don't spray my hognose cages though and they do pop up here and there.

Hi Jerry, I had this problem 6-7 years ago, when I brumated my snakes with wood chips , and when I Question it on the internet, I was told they were some form of wood mites. Very hard to see, unless their on a colored object, they also seem to like water bowls, as someone mentioned, slow moving, white specks. They seem to appear more in winter when the air is damp, during brumation. I used a little reptile mite spray in their enclosure which seem to take care of the problem for a few weeks, but they seemed to always return after a few weeks.I been useing drift wood on top of sand in my racks, which are in the garage for winter brumation in the winter, and once in a while I will get a outbreak in certain boxes. I would removed the wood, and micro-wave it, and cleaned the box. which took care of the problem. They defiantly are associated with wood. They did seem to spread from one sweater box to another, if you let them get out of hand.
Good luck, Bob Bichler

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R.Bichlers Colubrids
http://www.webspawner.com/users/rbichler/index.html

I just call them wood mites...

the world is covered in mites...we need only hate the 1 that drinks reptile blood...

it came from the wood....hopefully the next batch will be cleaner for you.....I never noticed them on aspen....I did have my mouse racks grow a million of them with fresh new lumber...after awhile they just sort of fade away after the wood dries and gets all dusty from mouse shavings....LOL..

cypress will have these too....and other types of mites...

the floor of a mouse room will be covered with mites of grain and wood types....

just clean as often as needed and don't worry about them...

good luck......

.....(cedar....I have thrown a handful of red cedar into each mouse and other rodent cages before to sort of rid myself of some types of bugs for a week or so....it has to help...cedar all around a room....I haven't done this in a few years....)...

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......this will only hurt alot..........

LOL......

I just use cage carpet..it gets soiled I put it in the washing machine

I experienced those same little wood mites back when I used aspen over 10 years ago. Although they didn't appear to be of any threat or health concern to my snakes, and friends and breeders I knew had seem the same thing in their collections when they used aspen, I made up my mind to just stop using aspen completely. I didn't like them in the cages at all, period.

Since then, for over 10 years, I have uses strictly newsaper and paper towels, and had excellent results and cleaner cages.

Take care!
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Genesis 1:1