Reptile & Amphibian Forums

ok so im wondering if i should get into breeding corns. is there a market for them. i see them everywhere and it seems that noone is really looking for corns anymore. right now i have a male caramel a male snow and a female amel motley. in a way im looking for some reassurance. i love the snakes but i dont want to start this project and be stuck with a bunch of babies. looking for some advice thanks all

There are so many factors to your question. And no one can give you a correct answer but you. But people can help point out factors you may not have thought of.

1. If breeding just for money not a great reason.

2. Can you care for a pile of babies? health reasons, space, time, cost etc.

3. Do you know wholesale prices vs. retail prices vs. show prices? On this note you may find a means to trade your babies for a breeding adult, if that is what you want. Still not a great reason, but it is done a lot. And I've done it.

4. If breeding for experience, and you can handle all the above why not? You may not make much with just 1 female. But if it is your first time, you have to start somewhere. Better 1 female than, buying 5-7 like a few of my customers and then they have 100 babies and expect retail for them.

5. Be prepared for troublesome feeders.

6. Be prepared for the unknown. lol

Good luck

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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

Dude
Nice Sulcata. I have 3 of them. My biggest is a 60lb female

OH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Females are hard to come by. The gal taht owns him is looking to breed. But if you have 3 I would guess you have a male?
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

at this point i am personally thinking about getting out of breeding. Yes, i enjoy it. But there is currently a VERY small market for them. I see alot of people selling off their collections to get into bigger and better things (like ball pythons and boas). With the economy the way it is there is no reason (in my opinion) to breed from babies who will more than likely not have homes. At the local reptile expo in richmond, va only the cheap $5 nonfeeder corns sold. not much of anything else. I am not in it for the money, but i dont have room for 80 hatchling just sitting on my shelves eating my pet snakes food. a local wholesaler isnt even taking in corns at this time b/c the market is too full of them. So if you are looking for current breeders to tell you what to do. its not our place. but there isnt much of a market for them right now.
~kin
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~Sober Serpents~
www.freewebs.com/soberserpents
Tons of Corns, A Trio of Creamsicles, A Black Rat, A pair of Leucistic Black Rat X Leucistic Texas Rat Intergrades, Thayeri, Cal Kings, A Jungle Corn, Ball Pythons, A Pair of Albino Nelsons Milksnakes, A Rescue RTB, Leopard Geckos, Green Anoles, 2 Snapping Turtles, an Eastern Box Turtle, a Bearded Dragon, an Adult Rescue Iguana

I agree. I said several years ago the market was crashing. I had no idea how deep. I see some people practically giving stuff away. Yet, at the monthly Cleveland show I see this mad rush to buy stuff? And I really sit back and watch. Many of them are buying feed ideas, but there are still a lot of people buying herps?

Helping at a shop (as I really don't work lol) I see a trend of newbies hit the retail shops, then find the web, hate the shipping cost on a cheaper end snake, but then find shows. Then it splits. People that love cheap prices and some stuff may be bad, and people that hate that and come back to the shops.

Between the shows, new shops opening doing mainly reptile (WHY I ask myself), the shop I help at is so dead. But so is Cleveland's economy. When there is a rebound in it, then people that got out will probably get back in. Once a herper always a herper. Anyone that has been around as seen so many people do it.

I have high a regard for those that do it for love and have stayed with it for many many years. It really shows something about their personality. I just have not decided if its good or bad?
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

I know I will be around for years to come.. I knew that there was no real money in it when we first started.. I bred what I want to bred and I ask the price I want..

Like Tom, I have watched the hobby grow and of course it is slowing down, not so much expendable income.. A lot of people got the notion in their head that they to could become breeders and make some fast big money.. Jokes on them, the money is drying up and well there is an abundance of common stuff floating around to fill a lot of different markets.. Of course with the decrease in expendable income a lot of the stuff has slowly been moving outside of the borders to the Euro markets.. In a few years, people are going to stop breeding, and get out of it all together.. Suits me fine, because I never gave up my day job in the hopes of making it big in the Corn Snake world, because I understood a long time ago that it would be painfully wrong to assume I could replace my income with a hobby..

I have to agree. I have some snakes that are worth one to two thousand or more each but at the same time I never bought with the expectation of making any real profits. I buy things I like and am interested in using in breeding projects and just hope that the market will allow me to make enough to have my hobby break even.

Another reason to keep the day job is that it allows you to keep the snake projects as a no stress hobby instead of becoming a job you might come to hate. You'll always have people getting into it for investment but they are also the people who end up leaving after awhile and selling all their stock to the rest of us for bargain prices to cut their losses. Look at whats been happening to the BP market the last few years.

Sean.
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1.1 BRB
1.0 Amel Pacific Gophersnake
0.1 Striped Anery Pacific Gophersnake
1.1 Triple Het TPRS's
0.1 Silver TPRS
1.1 Amel Bloodred Corns
0.1 Abbott Okeetee Corn
0.1 Blizzard Bloodred Corn
1.1 Thayeri Kingsnakes
0.1 Reeve's Turtle
0.2 Amstaff's
1.0 Pudytat

,,,,,,I'd take 5 for non feeders....

like they said...find out first

some people get alot of balls.....alot....some people sell alot of corns...alot....some people get alot and cannot sell..

it all depends on you and your area....

...as mentioned...don't expect to pay 40 for a fluorescent amel and get 40 for every baby if noone wants them all and you don't wnt to set on them till they do...

....I sold 73 to one guy and 70 to another and a bunch to the pet shop , alot of eggs were duds , alot died off , alot of babies didn't eat, I don't mess with scent....and still have a bunch of good stuff that is worth more than I was paid wholesale for most this year....and this is after I downsized ALOT....

oh...

........7..............$

...so....yes...go for....buy 20 pairs ...LOL.......we all did it at least twice.....

...good luck...
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......this will only hurt alot..........

LOL......

There is fun in breeding but alot of work. Getting corn snakes to breed and lay eggs and hatching them is actually the easy part. Building a hatchling rack and ensuring all are eating well is a bit more work. Advertising and arranging for shipping (or selling only locally or at shows) much more work.

Corn snakes are very numerous in the market in all colors,patterns and combinations of colors and patterns. They are an excellent snake for beginners and experienced herpers and easy to care for. Lots of pros to breeding and selling corn snakes.

But recessions tend to mean less people want to buy unnecessary things. This coming summer probably not the best time to breed for the first time. Wait another year or two, then decide. You could even buy one more baby female that will produce the most with your males to give you better selling offspring.

I really do not think there is much money to be made breeding and selling corn snakes on a small scale. But they are certainly fun to have as pets, even if you don't breed.
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PHLdyPayne

I have been breeding snakes for over 20 years(boas,balls,and corns) I produce a couple hundred corns a year and have always gotten rid of every one of them. This year has been slower than some but it will come around again. Just another cycle. You can always trade for other snakes or supplies or wholesale them to other breeders. No you will not get rich but do it for the excitement of seeing those little heads poke thru the egg.
Good luck,
Jeff

thanks to all for your responses. to answer some questions that were asked that i can rember:

yes i can afford the food i really dont see that being a problem. im looking to do this to creat my own cool morphs yea getting money will be great and honestly i will only look for whole sale prices. i do like the idea of being able to trade but i just want to start my own little 2 female 2 male setup and be happy.i just built a rack that will beable to hold a lot of babies and i really dont expect a lot with just 2 females. one clutch each per year maybe a double clutch here and there if possible. im just wondering if i am gonna be stuck with a lot of babies and and no home to find them.

Jeff i ahve been breeding on the small scale like you mentioned the last couple years and i was never stuck with babies. i was getting 2-3 clutches a year. one pet store normally takes everything i produce. it hold them over till the next year.
Tom

If you don't come up with a plan for selling offspring, then you're going to be stuck with them. You need to figure out if you will be going to shows, setting up a website, or making connections with dealers and pet stores - or all of the above.

People aren't going to buy snakes just because you have them. There's a lot of competition out there and if potential buyers don't know if you exist and what you have, then you're not going to have much luck selling babies.

I think someone else may have mentioned this, but it's also important to have housing, heating and food available for the offspring in the event that they don't sell immediately.

Tim

Third Eye

Tim has given some real good points.... If people don't know you exist , people are not going to buy from you...

Most people here have no idea who I am, I don;t advertise here other than posting a few pictures of what I have hatched out or what I am working with.. Not sure if it would matter or not if I sold here althought it would be another venue..

I am known on two sites.. One is a site outside of the US where I not over inclinded to ship and one well, can have my posts removed if I speak its name. However, every year I get a few more people intrested and less going to wholesale.. It takes a long time to actually get any wheres.. Just produce qaulity over qaunity and people will love you..

Regards.. Tim of T and J

I know you Tim hehe on here and 2 other sites... except you rarely check 1 site...

~kin
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~Sober Serpents~
www.freewebs.com/soberserpents
Tons of Corns, A Trio of Creamsicles, A Black Rat, A pair of Leucistic Black Rat X Leucistic Texas Rat Intergrades, Thayeri, Cal Kings, A Jungle Corn, Ball Pythons, A Pair of Albino Nelsons Milksnakes, A Rescue RTB, Leopard Geckos, Green Anoles, 2 Snapping Turtles, an Eastern Box Turtle, a Bearded Dragon, an Adult Rescue Iguana

Markets go up and down.

At issue with corns - they are too easy to breed, anything that makes a profit today will be difficult to profit from in 5 years because corns are too easy to breed and they have rather large clutches.

However - one thing I've noticed is a lot of hobbyists who breed pay too much attention to the simple morph genes and not enough attention to the rest of the snake.

This happened in Brooksi kings - In the '80s there use to be some really super nice very pale pattern gorgeous yellow lines (not sulfur), I believe many of them were Love Line but there were others. Then the brooks morph phase craze hit and now it is difficult to find those lines, many "brooksi" lines out there have been mixed with the uglier northern floridana but are still called brooksi, etc.

There still are a few breeders with genuine brooksi around but you really have to do your homework to find them, and often they only exist as morphs - to get the nice wild type brooksi you often need to cross the different morph lines to make double hets, which is kind of too bad, but anyway - this is a corn forum.

If you are good at selective breeding, you may find it easier to offload your offspring because your stock will look better than the rest. And as the economy rebounds (it will), having quality stock from your own selective breeding projects will be a benefit in a corn market where many breeders left.

What to do with offspring that are difficult to sell in the present? There are plenty of snake eating snakes. Elapids, coachwhips, Indigos, etc.

If you do not mind selling them as feeders, at least you will not have to pay to feed your selective breeding rejects during the current poor economy.

I personally am going to try and improve the Caramel and Charcoal lines. I had bigger plans but I'm scaling back. I think the Caramel gene is under appreciated. Many people only like the gene when mixed with other genes (like amel) but I think that is just because most caramels would be rather mediocre normals if not for the morph gene, I think by out-crossing and selective breeding, some really nice single gene Caramels could be produced. Time will tell. Charcoal - a lot of people like Charcoal, but recently a lot of charcoals on the market have yellowing necks. Some think it is food that does it but I think it is genetic. I consider myself very lucky to have a charcoal without yellow on the neck, like the original, though her offspring may as I out-cross her to other lines towards my goal, time will tell I guess - if it does, hopefully I can selectively breed the yellow back out.

Anyway - you generally aren't going to be profitable breeding herps unless you do it full time and pay close attention to the market and what the market wants. But I do think if you develop selective breeding skill, you can enjoy the hobby and sell off all your offspring.

I'm guessing Pituophis will be the next big colubrid. There are already plenty of morphs within many of them, and there are some really good locality lines as well. Watch the pit market.

Some consider pits too aggressive, but that's not always the case, and selective breeding can create better tempered lines. My WC female, collected at ~ 3.5 feet, never even tried to bite me. My WC male, collected at ~ 14 inches, also never even tried to bite me. There are docile pits, and GTPs and ATBs can be extremely aggressive yet have a good market.

But back to corns - Next year will hopefully be my first year breeding corns.

She's an '07 - but she's currently right at 36" and over 300 grams. Her intended mate (also a fabulous Okeetee) is an '06.
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Arrrggg!
It's like Shalom, but for pirates.
- iCarly

>>Markets go up and down.
>>
>>At issue with corns - they are too easy to breed, anything that makes a profit today will be difficult to profit from in 5 years because corns are too easy to breed and they have rather large clutches.
>>
>>However - one thing I've noticed is a lot of hobbyists who breed pay too much attention to the simple morph genes and not enough attention to the rest of the snake.
>>
>>This happened in Brooksi kings - In the '80s there use to be some really super nice very pale pattern gorgeous yellow lines (not sulfur), I believe many of them were Love Line but there were others. Then the brooks morph phase craze hit and now it is difficult to find those lines, many "brooksi" lines out there have been mixed with the uglier northern floridana but are still called brooksi, etc.
>>
>>There still are a few breeders with genuine brooksi around but you really have to do your homework to find them, and often they only exist as morphs - to get the nice wild type brooksi you often need to cross the different morph lines to make double hets, which is kind of too bad, but anyway - this is a corn forum.
>>
>>If you are good at selective breeding, you may find it easier to offload your offspring because your stock will look better than the rest. And as the economy rebounds (it will), having quality stock from your own selective breeding projects will be a benefit in a corn market where many breeders left.
>>
>>What to do with offspring that are difficult to sell in the present? There are plenty of snake eating snakes. Elapids, coachwhips, Indigos, etc.
>>
>>If you do not mind selling them as feeders, at least you will not have to pay to feed your selective breeding rejects during the current poor economy.
>>
>>I personally am going to try and improve the Caramel and Charcoal lines. I had bigger plans but I'm scaling back. I think the Caramel gene is under appreciated. Many people only like the gene when mixed with other genes (like amel) but I think that is just because most caramels would be rather mediocre normals if not for the morph gene, I think by out-crossing and selective breeding, some really nice single gene Caramels could be produced. Time will tell. Charcoal - a lot of people like Charcoal, but recently a lot of charcoals on the market have yellowing necks. Some think it is food that does it but I think it is genetic. I consider myself very lucky to have a charcoal without yellow on the neck, like the original, though her offspring may as I out-cross her to other lines towards my goal, time will tell I guess - if it does, hopefully I can selectively breed the yellow back out.
>>
>>Anyway - you generally aren't going to be profitable breeding herps unless you do it full time and pay close attention to the market and what the market wants. But I do think if you develop selective breeding skill, you can enjoy the hobby and sell off all your offspring.
>>
>>I'm guessing Pituophis will be the next big colubrid. There are already plenty of morphs within many of them, and there are some really good locality lines as well. Watch the pit market.
>>
>>Some consider pits too aggressive, but that's not always the case, and selective breeding can create better tempered lines. My WC female, collected at ~ 3.5 feet, never even tried to bite me. My WC male, collected at ~ 14 inches, also never even tried to bite me. There are docile pits, and GTPs and ATBs can be extremely aggressive yet have a good market.
>>
>>But back to corns - Next year will hopefully be my first year breeding corns.
>>
>>
>>
>>She's an '07 - but she's currently right at 36" and over 300 grams. Her intended mate (also a fabulous Okeetee) is an '06.
>>-----
>>Arrrggg!
>>It's like Shalom, but for pirates.
>>- iCarly
-----
Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

n/p
-----
Arrrggg!
It's like Shalom, but for pirates.
- iCarly