Reptile & Amphibian Forums

everyone ive seen is just an amazing animal
was wondering what makes an ivory ghost? Thanks

Ivory Ghost would most often be produced by pairing an Ivory Anery(Homozygous Anery)
with a DH Ghost Boa(Hypo heterozygous Anery) or
paired with a Ghost Boa(Hypo Homozygous Anery)

The Ivory Anery are Pastel Dream Anery Boas from Jeff Ronnes Pastel Dream line.

So the Ivory Ghost would be a Pastel Dream (Hypo Homozygous Anery)Boa
Hope this makes sense
. . . . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz
Boas By Klevitz

Not saying that it is right, wrong, or indifferent, but it seems to be a reality. "Ivory", seems to have evolved into a term used to describe a "Pastel Anery", no longer necessarily tied back to the "Pastel Dream" line. For many, "Ivory" means "Pastel Anery" of any lineage. Has anyone else noticed that?
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uncommonboa.com

Exactly what I'm afraid of. I've debated whether or not to make this post for a couple hours. Possibly its not even my place to make the following statement. This term "Ivory Anery" belongs to 1 line of Anery Boas started by Jeff Ronne. This is why in my statement I made it clear that Ivory Anery belongs to not just any "Ronne Pastel" or other Pastel Line but to the Pastel Dream line.Off the top of my head I can name 8-10 maybe more Pastel lines Jeff works with and has developed. Only one line The Pastel Dream Line can take claim for his existing Pastel Albino Boas as well as his Ivory Anery Boas.That's not to say these other Pastel Lines Jeff works with were not used in the process of developing the "Pastel Dream" Bloodline. I know "Big Momma" & "Big Daddy" not to mention "Jose" and "Jamie" were the progenitors of most all his lines. Also the first Pastel Boa Jeff produced identified and labeled was "Jamie". Plus other lines like Lucy Pastels,TJ Bloodline, Washington Bloodline ,Dubay Bloodline,Peters Pastel Bloodline, Peters Pastel Dream Bloodline,to name a few were probably used in the development of that Pastel Dream Bloodline.
Its possible I've mixed up a couple facts,I hope not.
My point is this Ivory Anery boas have to come from Jeff Ronne Ivory Anery Bloodline to be called Ivory Anery or Ivory Ghost.
Maybe I'm too caught up in the truth.
That's my .02 cents though.
. . . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz
Boas By Klevitz

Thanks for the insight, Lar. You should never debate over whether or not to post your opinioin, that's what these forums are for and keeps life interesting!

I don't disagree with anything you said. My only reference is that I have seen more than a few "Ivory" animals in the market, but have not seen too many Pastel Dreams. Since Anery is a recessive trait, you'd think one would see Pastel Dream animals available at least as often as the Ivories.

I suppose that's the difficulty in "branding" lines. How does anyone ever really know? With doms, co-doms, recessives, etc. its easy to "prove" what you have though breeding trials. Without a "stud-book", lines are outbred and then no one knows how much of the original lineage survives. For example, if one were to bred a known Ivory Anery (of Pastel Dream lineage) to a regular Pastel Anery, would the offspring still be considered Ivory Anerys? And, if those offspring were later breed to an unrelated Ghost, would those offspring be Ivory Anerys and Ivory Ghosts? How far removed can the original Pastel Dream be before rights to the "Ivory" term becomes no longer valid?

I mean no disrespect to Jeff, or the work he has done. He's a great guy and I have nothing but respect for him. My point is that without "standards" (such as with pedigree dogs, thouroughbreds, etc...) there is no methodology to keeping "lines" pure. Therefore, and not even with mal-intent, "lines" become lost and "brand names" such as Ivory, become generic descriptors for things such as Pastel Anerys, opposed to a verifiable fact of origin. This does not happen with morphs because, as I said earlier, they can be proved/disproved through breeding.

So, in short (maybe not so short?) ,I don't dispute anything you said, or deny Jeff's (or anyone else's) right to name a line, but the reality is that over time, brand names can (often will) be lost and become adjectives used to generalize characteristics, such as phenotypes, in the market.

Just my observation, and probably not even worth $.02!
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uncommonboa.com

I just lost my entire response to your post,LOL ouch.
To start with,being able to trace a Boas origin back to the Breeder helps maybe a bill of sale.Hopefully your dealing with a person who has Integrity and Honesty.So you can be certain what they say is true.Its also up to the buyer to be aware of the different traits how they work etc.So as to properly identify a Boa for what it is or is not.
Now For instance with the Pastel Dream Boa bloodline, breed it to another Boa. Now all the babies can be considered part of the Pastel Dream Bloodline. Although not all of those babies are Pastel Boas / Pastel Dream Boas. You have to use proper knowledge and scrutiny to identify Boas in the litter that can be labeled Pastel Boas.
Same goes for Ivory Anery Boas. You have to be able to identify the traits that make an Ivory Boa.As the name implies ,"Ivory" meaning lighter and cleaner Anery Boas.
I do believe many Anery Boas are labeled falsely as Ivory.
True Pastel Dream Boas are still very uncommon.
Dealing with reputable knowledgeable people is very helpful as well.
This all does leave an opening for dishonest people to label a Boa how ever they see fit as a selling point. Buyer be ware,right ?! LOL
Also in the long run its about the Boa that you consider the nicest and displays those traits you find mosdt attractive. So if it appears to be nice and catches your eye. Then it should make you happy to own it.
There is no standard to show pedigree that is true.Hopefully most people will not abuse descriptive names. Take the time to understand there meanings and origins and thus using them properly.
. . . . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz
Boas By Klevitz

I know first hand of well known reputable breeders that have peddled snakes from me and offspring of snakes from me and completely gotten the provenance on those particular lines wrong. Was it intentional? Possibly in some cases. Probably not in others.
So much of this stuff is faith based. Here is an analogy - "There's a line of people. You say something to the guy next to you and tell him to pass it on. By the time the story is repeated over and over again and reaches the end of the line, it's completely different". It happens.
jsc

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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

That's all completely true John.It says something about
listening & communication skills in people ,LOL
. . . . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz
Boas By Klevitz