Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Starting to get worried a bit...need more husbandry advice.
Had a problem a while back with first regurge...adjusted living conditions (his, not mine).
Gave him a couple of weeks to chill, gave him a hopper today (I was going to wait until tonight, but he was awake and active when I got home, so I put it in the cage...he ate it immediately, but when I looked in an hor or so later, it had been regurged.

20 gal tank
Ambient temps 75 to 85
Inch or so of cocunut bark substrate, good and moist at all times.
substrate temps from 65 to 75
One end has UTH, thicker substrate, hollowed out, big water dish on top.
Middle, no heat
Other end, Red heat lamp.
He spends most of his time under the hide, heat lamp side, substrate there is "around" 75 degrees.

Any advice?
Thanks!

That sucks, now it's back to square one. Like I said before Wait two weeks before attempting to feed again AND feed a small item!!!

Now that you have a second gurge in a row, I'd feed no larger than a small fuzzy mouse, better to get a pinky if you can. Intent now is to slowly rebuild his "good" bacteria load. is system is likely quite low on the bacteria he needs to help digest. The VERY small meals will be better for him to digest.

One product I've heard of but never tried "Bene-bac" Claims to replace lost beneficial bacteria.

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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

None of my snakes have ever chucked a meal back at me so I really don't know anything about it except what I've read particularly about BCC and sometimes BCI. Are you thinking that because this keeper's snake regurged a second time that it may be depleted of beneficial bacteria? I am unclear on the digestion process in snakes. If the mouse was in the stomach for an hour or so (don't know what time frame that really entails) would the intestinal flora even have been involved? How long does it take to move the undigested, broken down item from the stomach to the intestine where the bacteria actually live in other species? I have assumed that temperature influences enzyme activity secreted into the stomach before bacteria start to break down the contents of the stomach as they pass into the intestine.

I really dunno!!!

Yes, I am assunming since it gurged a second time there is a problem. From all I've heard when working back from regurge that there is typicaly a significant reduction in flora.

And totaly unsure of it but always assumed a regurge was the expulsion of stomach contents, not intestinal contents, I assume that would go out the other way.

In my feeble mind I'm thinking the stomache breaks down the food in the digestion process converting it into a liquidy pulp. That pulp would pass into the intestine for absorption of nutrients and concentration of waste.

I never thought before about where exactly the "beneficial bacteria" call home.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Thanks Dave...I waited 9 days, and the hopper was a small one, a glorified fuzzy.

I'll give him time, and start with big pinks /small fuzzys for a few weeks.

After re-reading your caresheets (and others), I still "feel" like I'm keeping his average temps too high, so I'm adjusting that.

Heat-guns on the way...can you give me detailed info on what works for you on ambient temps/substrate temps for your babies?
Thanks.

Mine are on paper towels in tub racks. I set the thermostat so back of tub is around 79 - 80 and the front is always a few degrees cooler.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Look at EVERYTHING in the snake's environment. It could be that the snake has a health problem and parasites would be the top of my list for possible health problem but it could also be something in how the snake is housed or what it is being fed that is the problem. Try to eliminate variables like substrate by switching to paper substrate. Also try to find out about how the mice are raised.

>>Thanks Dave...I waited 9 days, and the hopper was a small one, a glorified fuzzy.
>>
>>I'll give him time, and start with big pinks /small fuzzys for a few weeks.
>>
>>After re-reading your caresheets (and others), I still "feel" like I'm keeping his average temps too high, so I'm adjusting that.
>>
>>Heat-guns on the way...can you give me detailed info on what works for you on ambient temps/substrate temps for your babies?
>>Thanks.

...also, I know this is ridiculously un-scientific, but one thing that is hard for me to get used to is, when I get him out of the cage, he feels cold...again, heat-gun is on the way, but it goes against everything I learned with Monitors, I know, it's Apples and Oranges, I know my body temp is higher than his should ever be, but should they "feel" cold?
...I'm doing the work...I'm baby-stepping"

Most of mine feel "cool". If I pull one out that feels warm to me, I grab the temp gun and double check the enclosure to make sure nothing's going haywire.

I'd use NutriBac at this point. And make sure you've got good hydration. A few hours soak each night in warm water wouldnt hurt. A regurge can be a dehydrating experience, so can excessive heat.

I'd wait a good 14 days before you feed again, actually, I'd probably wait more like 21 days in your case. Get some NutriBac into your snake, make sure its hydrated and then let its system regroup. A snake in good condition can literally go months without food, 21 days will be fine if its regurge from inappropriate heat.

One thing I wonder about...1 hour from the time it went down until the time it came back up? That seems unusual for a husbandry issue. Was the prey of proper temperature? Not too cold in the middle or too hot? Any chance your snake may need deworming? 1 hour seems like a pretty quick regurge. When it happens here, its usually a discovery I'm treated to a day or two later.
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Julie
www.[url ban]/gfx

ha

I've been having that problem lately, I go pick one up and its warm to me. I grab the heat gun, they're like 80F.

I forget that it is so cold here. We only heat the snake room, which feels balmy when I walk in... when the whole room is only 65-70 degrees! The rest of the house about 45-50F, so my hands get cold lol.
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1.1 96, 04 Het Albino - "Suzie" & "Lumpy"
1.0 06 TH-Moonglow - "Gargamel"
1.2 01 BRBs- "Gobball", "Larva" & "Tofu"
2.7 08 BRBs

I think Julie is onto something. The quick regurge is very odd. Look at the mice as the potential problem. If they are raised on cedar it will cause a snake to regurge or even develop neurological symptoms. Also consider the possibility of parasites.

>>Most of mine feel "cool". If I pull one out that feels warm to me, I grab the temp gun and double check the enclosure to make sure nothing's going haywire.
>>
>>I'd use NutriBac at this point. And make sure you've got good hydration. A few hours soak each night in warm water wouldnt hurt. A regurge can be a dehydrating experience, so can excessive heat.
>>
>>I'd wait a good 14 days before you feed again, actually, I'd probably wait more like 21 days in your case. Get some NutriBac into your snake, make sure its hydrated and then let its system regroup. A snake in good condition can literally go months without food, 21 days will be fine if its regurge from inappropriate heat.
>>
>>One thing I wonder about...1 hour from the time it went down until the time it came back up? That seems unusual for a husbandry issue. Was the prey of proper temperature? Not too cold in the middle or too hot? Any chance your snake may need deworming? 1 hour seems like a pretty quick regurge. When it happens here, its usually a discovery I'm treated to a day or two later.
>>-----
>>Julie
>>www.[url ban]/gfx

I agree with Julie. Something is very strange about such a quick regurg. Could your snake have an impaction of some sort? Run the animal through your fingers and feel for any odd lumps.

You're right, it's certainly not scientific but in my experience, if an animal feels cold, it's too cold. It's certainly not too hot.

Low temps could be your problem but they wouldn't cause a regurg so quickly.
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Mike Lockwood
www.tooscaley.com