Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I know the two are compatible to the supper form. My question is this is it possible to produce both from one of the two with a normal? Someone told me they were able to do that. I didn't think that was true.

While some black pastels can look similar to cinnies and vice versa that is not the case. If it came from a black pastel it is a black pastel. Same with the cinny. The difference is more noticeable in combo morphs, as cinny pewters and silver streaks look quite different from their black pastel counterparts.

To add to what jayefbe said, the "super" or homozygous form of each is also different. Homozygous (Super) Black Pastels are all black animals, whereas homozygous Cinnamon Pastels are a deep brown.

Side by side comparisons of each of the morphs in both their heterozygous and homozygous forms are the best way to see the differences. Maybe someone who works with both mutations will post a good, clear side-by-side pic.

If I read your question correctly, then you are asking if it is possible for a super that is half cinny and half black pastel can produce both cinnies and black pastels. Of course I don't know first hand but I would have to guess that yes, a super that is half cinny and half black pastel would carry both genes and would be able to pass on both when bred to a normal. Offspring would either be cinnies, blacks pastels or normals. That would make sense to me but then again, I could be wrong. Oh, if that's not what you asked then whoops, I was thinking about this the other day anyways.

W. Smith

Genetically you would think that would be the case, And I am just guessing here, but I would think if say you bred a Super CinnyxBlack to a Normal....that you should be able to tell the Cinnamons from the Black Pastels.

There are many "Black Pastels" that I see that seem to visually be more like Cinnamons, and alot of "Cinnamons" that seem to be more like black pastels...some are very close in the visual dept.

So you would think...if you bred say a Cinnamon that was darker to a Black Pastel that was lighter, two that visually looked simular, I would think that the offspring would be hard to tell one from the other...

This is what I think of when I think Black Pastel

And what I think of when I think of a Cinnamon

I am curious, the same thing could be said with the Lucies, for example, a Super MojavexLesser...when that lucy is bred to a normal are the offspring distinctly Mojave and Lesser in the visual dept.?
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Executive Reptiles
Amanda Kingsbury & David Kendrick
www.executivereptiles.com

To answer the question "super mojave X lesser would make all mojaves and lessers?" that's a YES! Wes Harris has proved this by breeding his mojave X lesser BEL to 12 normal females, ALL offspring were mojaves or lessers, NO normals and NO lucys! RDR has bred his "karma" phantom X lesser BEL to multiple normal females and produced all phantoms and lessers, NO normals and NO lucys.

The question I would have is it possible for a super cinny X black pastel to produce a combo (solid black or brown) when bred to a normal? If the genes are different like a pastel X spider (bumble bee) then YES. If the genes are the same like mojave, lesser, butter, phantom etc.. then NO.

Guess we'll have to see if someone breeding the cross will chime in and tell us...

Hope this helps

Wow, that brings up a good point too. Are the Cinny and Black pastel genes interacting (different loci/heterozygous for both) to form the super or combining at the same locus to form a homozygous super. I guess that it would be the latter but that would mean that the would be no possibility of a normal being produced. If the first is true, the super would be produced in similar mannor as the super stripe yellow belly...two different genes. But if the second is true, then the combo lucies outcome would be more correct. I hope I didn't open another can of worms, but I just find this stuff really interesting. I wonder if this cross has been done? What about the super stripe to normal? I may have missed that thread. I guess I shouldn't get started on my thoughts of the different types of albinism.

W. Smith