Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am on the lookout for a nice pair of black pines but no luck yet and my question is would it be ok to keep them together as adults in a 125 gallon aquarium ?

Just my opinion but that seems too small
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Darwin Rocks!

125 gallon to small ? I guess if they get 6-7 feet ,the tank is 6 feet long , where ive seen most breeders keep them in rubbermaids . What size encloser would you suggest ? Maybe i should get a smaller type of snake ? The black pines are kind of hard to find right now ive been looking everywhere

I dont think 125g is too small however i personally do not like aquariums... they dont give much security for the snake unless its riddled with hide boxes and bedding ... I have a Black pine male that is over 6ft long and he is only 2 and half years old .. the female is about 5ft ... I believe they would be fine .. try it ... make sure they have plenty of space... there was a post on here a while back with a guy who keeps and has always kept his black pines together and has clutches every year.... there is no set rule ... just keep an open eye on them and make sure they play nice
The Adventures of Safari Tom

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Safari Tom
See'em Touch'em Save'em
www.SafariTom.com

This post below is copied from a similar post some time ago that was the same question you have, about keeping snakes together, and this was my response. All just my opinion:

It is possible, but I would have to ask, is it really necessary to do so??

First of all, while some snakes may do well with it, others may not, and then their stress level would be higher than it should be. Stress can lead to snakes not eating, etc.. Stress is something to always avoid if possible at all times with our snakes.

Second, if you do house some together, and one gets sick somehow, the other most likely will as well. Then, on top of that, if both get sick, it may be harder to pinpoint exactly WHO got sick and WHEN.

Third, as far as the issue of feeding, even though pits are not cannabalistic, accidents can happen. Jason from Envy housed some baby San Diego gophers ( I think that is what it was, correct me if I am wrong Jason )temporarily in a bigger cage while getting other cages ready, and one gopher ate another. Again, Jason may have to chime in on what exactly happened, as I am not sure if it was right after feeding time, but still, that can and does happen.

My old breeding partner in the nineties housed a hognose pair together for years, and one day, out of the blue, the female just devoured the male. This was after having the snakes housed together for a long, long time.

So, my overall thoughts are, while some may have done so with success, the reasons I listed would make me error on the side of caution, and I would keep everything separate.
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Genesis 1:1

The cage perimeter should be one and a half times the length of the longest snake in the cage and remember all animals, like reptiles have different personalities, some pines will do great in a "same cage setup" but some won't. Also, most commerical breeders keep their breeders in those rubbermaid storage tubs, But in my opinion "Pet type" pinesnakes will be happier in a tall, side vented, wood cage with a heating mat (12" X 16" stuck to the bottom on either end, but located under a hidebox measuring (at least 4" tall) and 12" x 16" with a 3" x 3" hole (for double snake access) and the hidebox (or two) should be placed on 3 Inch deep aspen bedding. If your cage is set up like this with a light inside and a clear glass front you will see your pines out all day and in the "parascope" position, especially if your snake room has windows to see to the sunlight outside. The mid-level venting on the cages sides allows a cross current of air outside of their draftless hideboxes, this draws the snakes to the cage center with their nose's up. fyi... Glass aquairums are for fish!

I have a pair of Black Pines that have been living togather in a cage with a 3' x 3' "footprint" for years. They reproduce every year and are doing fine.

Having said that, there are certain risks involved when keeping more than one snake per enclosure, and I think DISCERN covered that angle pretty well.

Not all snakes react well to cohabitation - some may go off feed or regurgitate.

Tim

Third Eye

Thanks for the info,i really do not prefer to house snakes in a glass aqurium , but have one empty and do not want fish also having a hard time trying to sell it with it being only 4 months new . I am also aware of feeding together and if i had housed 2 together one would be pulled out to feed,but after considerable thought on this i have decided not to do it. Im kind of looking at a pair (not to house together) of albino speckless bulls.But may just use the aquarium for a single chain king,who knows.I have been out of snakes for a few years now ,so am starting all over again.I have built some nice cages and having an itch to do this again

A 3'x3' cage is still 9 square feet and most 125 gallons are around 6-7 square feet. I would give an adult pair of black pines a little moor room then 6-7 square feet. Aquariums just stink with square footage most of them time. Just assuming your tank is in the 6-7 square foot range. Just my opionon but I would bo bigger.

Ken

No disrespect to Ken, but I have to argue this one...I would say that length of the cage may be more important than square feet of floor space. Just because they have one lung and need room to stretch out. Of course, I am no expert, but have kept black pines for 4 years...in a 55 gallon, which is 48 inches x 12 inches. Had a female that was over 5 feet long in it for over a year and she was content.

I think pits and corns do better in glass aquariums than milks and kings. The pits and corns can tolerate lower humidity than the Lampropeltis. I had an Andean in a 20 gallon at one time and she had shedding issues. Never had this problem with corns or pits.

I have co-habitated pits in the past with no issues.

We're all learning here.

Thanks,
Michael

I agree with your post that length is moor important then width. I also kept two full grown bulls together in a 6ftx2ft enclosure with 2 hides on each end so they do not have to be piles on one another to thermoregulate. I can not see in an aquarium 12in wide them having much of a choice. I guess they would have been fine in a smaller cage but I just prefer to give them space.

that most breeders keep their snakes in cages that are too small, and I'm as guilty as the next guy. In the past year, I made a huge effort to cut back from 30 snakes to around 10 so that I could give more attention to the ones that I have. I found that I'm able to provide better husbandry and really enjoy the snakes more, so now I'm looking to cut back to six.

Thanks,
Michael

I think that the main reason glass aquariums are a poor choice is that they are a pain in the butt to clean and you will inevitably smash them up! Every time you haul that thing to the bathroom or back porch to bleach and rinse it is just one step closer to cracking the glass out. I have not kept a snake in glass for years and would never go back! You end up with ugly hard water deposits on the glass, loose the locking clips and end up stacking books on top to avoid escape, etc., etc.

When I think back to the jungle of aquariums I had stacked all over my room as a kid and all the paper route money I spent getting new ones I realize what saints my parents were.

Imagine living your whole life in a stagnet aquarium, with a steaming pile of feces in the corner and no moving air in the cage or any way to avoid the stench! I say treat your snakes like you would if you were the snake, I told my nephews to use their imaginations to get a real sence of what it is like on the snakes level, you know, down there one inch off the bedding... very small snakes or lizards do fine in aquairums but any snake thats bigger than say 24" should have a roomy cage with low side vents and a good 10 minute shot of real sunlight at some point in the day, not for UV but...well you know how great it feels on your skin.

Tubs in a rack are much easier to deal with.

I have learned a lot by observing the snakes in the glass aquariums though and will always keep 1-2 around...just kinda reminds me of those old days as a little kid looking in at the snake and reading into every little movement and activity to try to find out more about it.

Thanks,
Michael