Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Has anyone crossed the Malsin and Nerd lines to see if they're compatible?
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Dale....dgoins222@yahoo.com
www.LibertyReptiles.com

I think Malsin & Upscale are the same if I recall accurately. If so, idoremember asking Doug Beard of upscales and he reported a customer of his proved it compatible. To my knowledge no caramel lines have proven incompatible.

Hope that helps

I think there are some incompatible lines that are called caramel that probably should be called something else. I saw a really nice animal that I was told was captive bred in Africa and proven both recessive and incompatible with the established caramel morph but I wasn't given details as to who proved that or even a name for this line. I've also read that there is a "Crider" line in the states that is reported to be incompatible. The poster even indicated that the caramel name was originally given to the Crider line but that what we now call caramel proved and proliferated quicker after the name was given.

If these are both true it gives some hope for a caramel looking animal that might not have the kinking problem and could eventually replace caramels. The import I saw I would say was even a little nicer looking than caramel.

According to NERD's book, there are at least two incompatible lines of caramels.

They are compatible. This year I bred a BHB line Caramel male to a 66% Poss Het female (she was made by breeding a Malsin line Het to a NERD line Het). She proved out, and I now have Caramels that include BHB, NERD and Malsin lines in one animal.

I hope that helps.
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Tim and Monica Bailey
Bailey & Bailey Reptiles

Technically that 66% het only has the NERD or Malsin line not both. If it carried both it would have been a Caramel from the original breeding.

Eric
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www.ESReptiles.com

There are 2 lines I am aware of that are not compatible. There is a line out of Africa. There are a few people working with them. The original Wagner animal.

And I will put money on that I have a line that will not be compatible.

I am working with 5 different lines and hope to see what will happen in the next year or so

I have bell lines, upscale, nerds, and 2 different wild caught animals and they all look 100 percent different

If I have time toning I will post pics
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Albinos Unlimited home of the Jester ball.
www.myspace.com/albinosunlimited
PIJAC member

Any pics to share of your new line out of Africa?

Thanks

BA

I am working with the following lines. To my knowledge these are all compatible.

VPI-NERD
TSK
BHB
BELL
MALSIN

I have Caramels that I have combined with these lines,

VPI-NERD X TSK
VPI-NERD X BHB

Making a third line combo is this seasons effort.

Concerning the new African line which to my knowledge is not compatible with the established lines. They are beautiful and they seem different. The photos I have seen have shown animals with less "blushing" or "fading" than the established lines. Perhaps it is only the animals I have seen so far that tend to show less "blushing". Just a matter of personal taste. Does the African line produce as nice of a "Caramel Glow", etc? It is really exciting because if they vary in what they bring to the combo Morph table, this could give the Breeders more to work with when selective breeding. Exciting stuff for sure.
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Kyle
www.royalvariations.com

"be safe, be happy and dont let anyone make you afraid" David Coverdale

Is there really no name for this new incompatible "caramel" being bred in Africa?

The one I saw briefly seemed a little more bright and yellow than I expected for a caramel. I thought it might be a banana at first but was assured it was recessive.

While I wouldn't expect an incompatible line to have the kinking thing I suppose it's possible there could be a chemical relation along with the similar appearance. Can anyone confirm if any of the incompatible lines have a tendency for kinking or not?

Has anyone crossed the Crider line with the CB African line to see if they are compatible with each other?

Matt do you have any Crider Caramel answers for Randy?

Good questions,

The ones I have seen were like high contrast Caramels. I almost purchased some hets but I decided to watch and wait. BTW, I think that incubation adjustments might help to reduce kinking with Caramels. I am keeping notes of incubation at lower temps. To date the results are promising but as of yet not conclusive. I need to try more clutches to prove this to be true. I will gladly share ALL notes and practices with the forum to try to prevent kinking with Caramels once enough data has been gathered from more clutches. It would also be a great help if anyone breeding Caramels would share their experiences with "no kinked" clutches. This is not a competitive issue. This is about the animals themselves and providing info to breeders that can allow this amazing Morph to be produced with "kink free" consistant outcome.
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Kyle
www.royalvariations.com

"be safe, be happy and dont let anyone make you afraid" David Coverdale

Good to know! I'll be starting my Caramel Glow project this season breeding my DH male to het ghost females. Next season I'll be breeding him to het caramels. I'll be interested in any info and will post all I can as well.

Wishing you the best Kyle!

Cheers!

Alan

Alan,

Thank you and best of luck with your Caramel Glow project. That is a great project.

Sharing notes, sounds great. I would like to here your thoughts and comments.

Again, best of luck with your project and your season.

Regards, Kyle

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Kyle
www.royalvariations.com

"be safe, be happy and dont let anyone make you afraid" David Coverdale

Kyle, Curious about the lower incubation temps...if you don't mind saying...how much lower are you going? And, how many days does it add to total incubation time?
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Dale....dgoins222@yahoo.com
www.LibertyReptiles.com

INSIDE EGG BOX 87 DEGREES
note- almost 88 degrees prior to hatching due to heat from eggs

LAID 6-5-2008

FOUR EGGS

PIPPING- July 30 TH FIRST HATCHLING “CARAMEL HET”
July 30TH SECOND HATCHLING “CARAMEL HET”
July 31ST THIRD HATCHLING “CARAMEL HET”
July 31ST FOURTH HATCHLING “CARAMEL”

HATCHED- July 31ST FIRST HATCHLING “CARAMEL HET”
July 31ST SECOND HATCHLING “CARAMEL HET”
August 1ST THIRD HATCHLING “CARAMEL HET”
August 2ND FOURTH HATCHLING “CARAMEL

NO KINKING

Natures Spirit incubator

SUBSTRATE “HATCH RITE”

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Kyle
www.royalvariations.com

"be safe, be happy and dont let anyone make you afraid" David Coverdale

sound like they went full term no delay. Nice! Good info!

Thanks Kyle!

Best wishes to you!
Alan

Alan,

I would like to hear any info you have also. If we work together sharing information we might be able to tweak the Caramels out of kinks. Anyway, have a great weekend and again best of luck with your season.

Thank you, Kyle

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Kyle
www.royalvariations.com

"be safe, be happy and dont let anyone make you afraid" David Coverdale

Kyle,

Any info I can share, I will! No caramel clutches yet...

Best of luck to you and I'll keep in touch!

Alan

make great looking Caramels. I produced a few this year by originally producing poss hets with a NERD Het male. I kept the females, sold the het male and purchased a male Caramel from Upscale that was from their male Caramel. I used him on the 50% poss. het females and produced perfect outbred babies. They are also very rich in color which I tend to like.
John Manser

That's a beauty John...very encouraging...I'm doing het. Malsin x het. Nerd this year. Actually they're locked up right now.
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Dale....dgoins222@yahoo.com
www.LibertyReptiles.com

Beautiful caramel! Sounds like all your patience really paid off. I may do the same thing with lavender albinos. They're gorgeous, but way out of my price range.

.
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Dale....dgoins222@yahoo.com
www.LibertyReptiles.com