Reptile & Amphibian Forums

ok, the other thread has become to congested for anyone just now joining to follow. in reading the last post before my reply, i think the i think the supposition was this. a hypo animal (hypo meaning a reduction in dark pigments) and a pastel animal (pastel meaning "lite colored" can look the same, but the distinguishing factor is recessive verses co-dominate genes. in layman's terms a hypo and pastel snake can look the same, but a hypo will need to breed to another animal with hypo genes to reproduce the lighter colors as where a pastel could breed with a normal animal and still produce off spring that show the lighter coloration. did i understand that correctly? if so, i certainly do not disagree with the notion, however, i do feel that is not an industry accepted definition. perhaps it should be. i am interested to hear from other breeders as to proven results breeding what is classically deemed hypo and classically deemed pastel.

my own thoughts, based on my experience, if one breeds a lighter colored animal (be it hypo or pastel) to a normal colored animal then the off spring will be lighter then the normal, perhaps not as light as the hypo/pastel.
Chuck Hurd Serpentology

pastels tend to be lighter than normals were as hypos are actually missing one of the layers of colors in their skin...this affects the black on true hypos, that is why my first question is "are the blacks a true black or another color"....

Chuck come over to my place and i can show you the difference between hypo and pastel SC copperheads...when we finally get some pasel and hypo cottons then we'll talk bout them...true we have interesting cottons, but we both need to do some breeding before naming....

haha, my friend, the ever present morph naming council has broke me. i will never again name any of my snakes. i will describe what they look like and people can call them as they see them. i will get over there pretty soon. need to get my new female stripe copper to you by spring.
Chuck Hurd Serpentology

you have to bring her to me...i won't accept her any other way...lol

and bout time little ol me broke you...lol

"pastels tend to be lighter than normals were as hypos are actually missing one of the layers of colors in their skin...this affects the black on true hypos, that is why my first question is "are the blacks a true black or another color".... "

Alright, please correct me if I'm wrong (I am horrible with morph/genetic terminology)..... Pastels still possess and exhibit all of the colors of a normal, but with just more percentage of the snake's pattern being of the lighter pigmentation.

A Hypo, however, can resemble a normal or a pastel, but the "black" areas are actually really concentrated areas of brown pigmentation.

?

.......please elaborate if I'm completely off track.

Thanks!
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1.3.0 Leopard Geckos
0.1.0 California Kingsnake
0.1.0 Copperhead
1.1.0 Eastern Box Tutles

no, hypos are not normal color...all the colors should be affected as a layer of melanin has been rendered inactive...there are many layers of colors in reptiles skin...many morphs are named after one of those layers being removed or inactive...axantic-lacking yellow or anerythristic-lacking red and so on...hypos tend to be more tricky because some person may think "hey this snake is light it must be hypo"...but no, if it has black it may be another morph...pastel or maybe something better like a genetic marked het for something better, like luci or albino....or could just be a light animal with no genetic value, just value by it's owner as a beautiful specimen...that is why when interesting animals come into a breeders hands, they should be bred before naming(unless it's obvious)...

after seeing premature babies, it may be that the hypo gene is the one that shuts off the last layer of color right before birth...but this is just a thought, it would have to be studied in more depth....

Thanks for the clarification.....sorry I'm not up to par with the rest of you guys.

Your "premature hatchling/baby connection with hypos" may be credible, as I have often seen premies born displaying what you are referring to as "hypo".
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1.3.0 Leopard Geckos
0.1.0 California Kingsnake
0.1.0 Copperhead
1.1.0 Eastern Box Tutles

A premature hatch type of hypo could not be a genetic morph.
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http://www.simply-sober.com/him.html

http://simply-sober.com/blog1/

no one is saying that it was. he was saying that the premature birth snakes look hypo, so therefor the gene that causes hypo shuts down the last layer of pigment that develops right before birth.
Chuck Hurd Serpentology

sorry chuck missunderstood. On a side note I recently got my hands on a male western cotton and put it with my pictigaster just for fun.I would like to see pictures of those f2s.
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http://www.simply-sober.com/him.html

http://simply-sober.com/blog1/

the F2's are still at barts house. i will send you some pics soon as i get some. i have a pic on my site of a TP x cotton hybrid. i really dont like the color as well as the southern x FL. was it you that i was talking to a few months about about getting some western cottons from the far western section of the range?

no it was not me but I do know where they are at in tom green and iron county the very tip of the range
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http://www.simply-sober.com/him.html

http://simply-sober.com/blog1/